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Old 16-09-2019, 16:49   #181
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Originally Posted by jeff356 View Post
I hope that investigators are able to do a through job without wild public speculation coming to the forefront.

Has there been any speculation as to the 1 crew member that was down below and perished, were they on watch, did they become overcome before being able to alert above deck crew?

From a terrible situation I am sure new design and crew watch requirements or verification will come out after the full instigation and report.

As a note we have smoke a CO2 detectors on board and use if running the generator or yacht lamp, etc. as the Admiral is very safety conscious.

Also in early 90's was in our computer room, with raised floor, big air conditioner and large halon system and our alarm was wired incorrect so during a test of the system the techs stopped the alarm but once started there was no way to stop the halon release. I was sitting at my desk thinking the alarm was off when there was a rumble and roar, paper and plants going everywhere and we came flying out the door. Got my attention.

Jeff


The crew member that perished in the fire below deck has been reported to be the cook and female, so probably not a watchkeeper.
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Old 17-09-2019, 07:44   #182
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Here is the safety briefing video from Conception. It gives a clear view of the escape hatch. You can imagine the contortions an average (overweight) American adult would have to go through to squeeze through that hatch and the two 90 degree vertical turns (bunk-to-hatch, hatch-to-deck) which couldn't be negotiated at all if the person was facing the wrong way (forward) while going through.

It appears to me that there isn't anything to retain the flap-door open, so the door would slam shut after each person passes through. It would trap anyone who backed up while going through. It's not an emergency egress as much as it's a booby trap.

It is reported to be "up to code." If so, the code needs to change.

https://www.independent.com/wp-conte...eboard-2-1.mp4
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Old 17-09-2019, 13:19   #183
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

On the other hand, people who pay to go diving are usually in fairly good shape, limber enough, and not obese. If you're swimming a mile 3 or 4 times a week (doing laps at the pool), you tend to be pretty healthy, compared to someone who doesn't "do" exercise. Divers tend to swim A LOT, it helps to stay in shape, and they know that.

Honestly, I'd think the training film would be improved by showing people using it, and holding the door for the next one, if necessary. We're talking orderly evacuation here, not panic. Stay calm, and get out of here carefully, efficiently.

Unfortunately, these particular souls did not have the chance. The fire on board the MV Conception was a unique event in the diving industry.

Certainly don't want any more of them.

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Old 17-09-2019, 15:32   #184
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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The crew member that perished in the fire below deck has been reported to be the cook and female, so probably not a watchkeeper.

The female crew member that perished in the fire was a deckhand and NOT the cook as I erroneously posted, my apologies to the forum for passing on flawed/ fake news.
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Old 18-09-2019, 07:31   #185
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Honestly, I'd think the training film would be improved by showing people using it, and holding the door for the next one, if necessary. We're talking orderly evacuation here, not panic. Stay calm, and get out of here carefully, efficiently.

Yes, I completely agree. It's commendable that the vessel operator produced the video because it's more effective than just talking about emergency procedures; but showing someone actually using the hatch is better than just showing the hatch.

One of the "stages of grief" is Blame. And I feel we are all grieving here at some level. But it's much more productive to identify vulnerabilities and search for ways to prevent this tragedy from ever being repeated - which I see the thread contributors have thoughtfully engaged in here.

I feel sadness for all concerned: those who lost their lives, their families and friends, the vessel crew and emergency responders who will carry lasting memories of this horror, and the vessel operator of whom everyone has said genuinely focused on safety. It's natural, when facing a great personal loss, to ask one's self "what could I have done differently?" I can't imagine how that question must torment the operator and crew. We don't need to add to that torment, which must already be absolute.

People make mistakes, and it's rarely just one error or technical failure that causes a catastrophe. Good safety systems are designed to tolerate technical faults and compensate for some human error. There's a reason why airliners still have two pilots and procedures requiring that they crosscheck each other's work.

If there is blame to be cast, it's toward the possibly defective technologies, inadequate regulations, and the market forces that pressure any business to do only what is minimally required for safety in order to remain competitive in the marketplace.

Regulations are intended to raise the bar to assure all competitive businesses meet reasonable safety standards. Our current political climate has strong anti-regulatory undercurrents. This accident is an example of why we need adequate regulations and safety standards.
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Old 19-09-2019, 11:44   #186
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

The following article is a summary of the disaster from the first responder's perspective:

https://www.noozhawk.com/article/fir...fort_20190918?
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Old 19-09-2019, 12:20   #187
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Originally Posted by Cpt Pat View Post
Yes, I completely agree. It's commendable that the vessel operator produced the video because it's more effective than just talking about emergency procedures; but showing someone actually using the hatch is better than just showing the hatch.

One of the "stages of grief" is Blame. And I feel we are all grieving here at some level. But it's much more productive to identify vulnerabilities and search for ways to prevent this tragedy from ever being repeated - which I see the thread contributors have thoughtfully engaged in here.

I feel sadness for all concerned: those who lost their lives, their families and friends, the vessel crew and emergency responders who will carry lasting memories of this horror, and the vessel operator of whom everyone has said genuinely focused on safety. It's natural, when facing a great personal loss, to ask one's self "what could I have done differently?" I can't imagine how that question must torment the operator and crew. We don't need to add to that torment, which must already be absolute.

People make mistakes, and it's rarely just one error or technical failure that causes a catastrophe. Good safety systems are designed to tolerate technical faults and compensate for some human error. There's a reason why airliners still have two pilots and procedures requiring that they crosscheck each other's work.

If there is blame to be cast, it's toward the possibly defective technologies, inadequate regulations, and the market forces that pressure any business to do only what is minimally required for safety in order to remain competitive in the marketplace.

Regulations are intended to raise the bar to assure all competitive businesses meet reasonable safety standards. Our current political climate has strong anti-regulatory undercurrents. This accident is an example of why we need adequate regulations and safety standards.
It was reported yesterday that one of the surviving crew is suing the Owner as they blame him for being "improperly trained" and for the boat having "safety inadequacies"

This oportunism just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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Old 19-09-2019, 12:23   #188
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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It was reported yesterday that one of the surviving crew is suing the Owner as they blame him for being "improperly trained" and for the boat having "safety inadequacies"

This oportunism just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Me too!
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Old 19-09-2019, 15:18   #189
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Pelagic, Cadence

You seem to have forgotten that the crew are victims too!

I hope that you never have to live the rest of your life with the kind of guilt, shame, and fear that unfortunately this crew is going through right now.

The guilt of wondering if possibly there was anything they could have done differently that would have changed the outcome.

The shame of fortunately being alive when so many people that they were responsible for died.

And, the fear of what the rest of their life will be like having to relive this tragedy over and over again.

The victims are all beyond any further pain or suffering.

The families have at least a chance of closure for their great loss.

But the crew is doomed to forever wonder "what if"!

This is a tragic event for all involved. Mourning, and not blame or slander, is the correct response.

Paul
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Old 19-09-2019, 15:47   #190
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Pelagic, Cadence

You seem to have forgotten that the crew are victims too!

I hope that you never have to live the rest of your life with the kind of guilt, shame, and fear that unfortunately this crew is going through right now.

The guilt of wondering if possibly there was anything they could have done differently that would have changed the outcome.

The shame of fortunately being alive when so many people that they were responsible for died.

And, the fear of what the rest of their life will be like having to relive this tragedy over and over again.

The victims are all beyond any further pain or suffering.

The families have at least a chance of closure for their great loss.

But the crew is doomed to forever wonder "what if"!

This is a tragic event for all involved. Mourning, and not blame or slander, is the correct response.

Paul
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Paul,
There must have been an ambulance chaser waiting at the pier which is a shame.
Anyone for tort reform.
I can see the crew remembering it but feeling remorse feeling it was their fault?
If I were to crew and felt I was inadequately trained and the vessel was unsafe I doubt I would be aboard.
Roger
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Old 19-09-2019, 15:55   #191
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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The guilt of wondering if possibly there was anything they could have done differently that would have changed the outcome.


This is a tragic event for all involved. Mourning, and not blame or slander, is the correct response.

Paul
s/v Feeling Good
Hi Paul,

I know your sentiments are in the right place, but individuals should take responsibility for their professional actions/ or inaction./ ignorance

It was this crew's choice not to get proper training in Marine Emergency Duties.

It is their choice not to learn Firefighting, CPR as other more serious employees do on their own dime and volition.

From that training.... assess the inherent weaknesses of their place of employment and voice those concerns during safety meetings.

I would not have mention this but for the litigious nanny state mentality of this survivor's legal action.

Suck it up and realize you were never a 'professional' and learn from that mistake!

I totally agree with your last paragraph which does not include trying to financially benefit from this tragedy
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Old 19-09-2019, 16:02   #192
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

Someone was not doing their job, as there was no watch. Most likely will fall on the Captain, as it is his responsibility.
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Old 19-09-2019, 16:17   #193
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Someone was not doing their job, as there was no watch. Most likely will fall on the Captain, as it is his responsibility.
You are probably right. Or was there supposed to be a watch and someone fell asleep at the switch, could the suit be proactive. I guess it will all come out in the wash, so to speak.
A sad situation any way one looks at it.
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Old 19-09-2019, 16:45   #194
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

or is the suit in response to the owners invoking the maritime law limitations thing?
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Old 19-09-2019, 16:48   #195
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Re: The loss of M/V Conception

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Someone was not doing their job, as there was no watch. Most likely will fall on the Captain, as it is his responsibility.


The captain of the Costa Concordia got 17 years prison for a grounding that cost 32 lives and his employer, Carnival Cruises escaped unscathed by paying the court 1.5 million Euro with no admission of responsibility so maybe yes regarding this captain once the NTSB has completed its enquiry and the court cases begin.... driven by flesh eating lawyers and not by the hapless crew who luckily survived but will carry the burden of this tragedy for the rest of their lives.
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