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Old 10-08-2018, 07:33   #61
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

Can anyone give a recommendation on where to purchase a good used Asymmetrical Spinnaker with a 50’ Luff? - for a Bali 4.3 Catamaran with a 56’ Hoist
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Old 10-08-2018, 07:51   #62
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

Hi..



See there are many replies - so maybe no more advice needed. In that case - just ignore.


I single-handed that same route. I have sailed both symmetrical and asymmetrical - but smaller (41 foot ketch, rather than 50 foot single mast), so more manageable.


My experience:
- Yes, there are periods of light wind. In those circumstances, with the swell still there, sailing is no fun, but a big light air sail doesn't necessarily improve things, as they will be difficult to keep full. What does help, is not going dead downwind: the higher you go, the more apparent wind you create and the faster (and more stable) you will sail. On a dead downwind course I almost invariably gibe my way to target, beach cat style.


For that reason I hardly ever sailed with poled out genua etc. Even if the VMG might be lower, I prefer the comfort of a stable sail - and so does the rig. Who cares if a 3 week crossing takes a few days more or less? Lying awake because the rig is slamming in no wind/swell conditions is much, much worse :-).


- If you do intend to sail almost DDW, a symmetrical sail is much better than an asymmetrical sail: the spinnaker pole will get a big chuck of sail out of the lee of the mainsail.
- I never sailed symmetrical or asymmetrical with either sock or roller: I hoist out of the bag, and to lower I just pop the guy, and pull in the whole sail through hatch or cabin entrance by means of the sheet, in the lee of the mainsail. Has always worked for me as being quick and controlled way, eben in stronger winds.
- Code zero as far as I now is an upwind sail, which on the coconut milkrun is hardly ever needed: if you need togo upwind, much wind will be more likely than no wind.


Hope this helps a bit!
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:04   #63
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

I am firmly in the A sail camp with good sock. That is for below 8 knots. Above 8 knots I roll out the 155 genoa which almost like a heavier wind A sail. I am on Lake Ontario not the Pacific though.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:20   #64
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

No question,symmetrical with a sock.I did that leg,4000nm with my wife two years ago and we had typical light winds panama to when we picked up trades south of galapagos.when we had fresh trades ,20 plus kts,we sailed wing on wing with reefed sails and pole.Only issue is swept back spreaders,we met many sailors who had autopilot problems as they couldnt square away their mainsails.google our blog ' laragh456' and have a great sail
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:37   #65
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

We have a 50’ 3” taswell sloop cutter rigged. We sailed Panama to Australia in 2007 stopping at all the coconut run typical hideouts along the way. Panama to Marquises is about 3000 miles it took us 19 days. 2 days each we made 240 miles in 24hrs. Surfing in 30 kts off the port quarter. Only thing faster was the Southern Indian Ocean 40kts 20’ seas for 19 days .. we used an asymmetrical spinnaker.

The correct answer is use neither a asymmetric or code zero. They are both hard to handle and comparatively dangerous when compared to a Doyle top down furling Utility Power Sail (UPS).

The UPS is set on an independent flexible stay ( for us on to a bow sprint) the sail is detachable and easily stored when in port, otherwise is furled on the stay when not deployed. Deploying the sail takes about 1minute 30seconds. Furling takes about 1 minute depending on the wind force. In the Pacific SQUALLS are the big problems. And winds slowly build and makes it difficult to get your spinnaker down.. NOT So with the top down furler.
The top down is just the opposite of a normal furler, furling the smallest part of the Sail first shrinking the smallest size first. It’s just a whole lot easier when the wind picks up.

You can use this rig all the way around the world. Just leave it up while your at sea and take it down in port......(to save the sail from sunlight). Haul it out when winds are light , haul it in when it picks up, or squalls abound.

This is the best sail ever. After a month with this sail it is the only sail we used below 15 kts. It can be rigged for either straight down wind or wind off the quarter all the way to a close reach.
I highly recommend this rig for downwind sailors everywhere.
Call me @ 321-312-8203 if you would like to talk about it or circumnavigating.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:57   #66
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

We use a cruising chute on our Bav 36 in all sorts of formats: main, Genoa and chute on one side, main and chute on one side, main and Genoa on one side, chute goose winged, main and chute goose winged and Genoa and chute goose winged (no main). When goose winged we generally use a pole.
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:38   #67
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

I have a drifter with a ShuteScoop that I singlehand with on my Irwin 38. The long tack line allows me to move it around front when the wind is aft.
My new Irwin 46 has a full spinacker that won’t see much use at all until I get a ShuteScoop for it. https://www.dropbox.com/s/r5k073o0e2...26.11.jpg?dl=0
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:42   #68
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Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by home_maarten View Post
- Yes, there are periods of light wind. In those circumstances, with the swell still there, sailing is no fun, but a big light air sail doesn't necessarily improve things, as they will be difficult to keep full. What does help, is not going dead downwind: the higher you go, the more apparent wind you create and the faster (and more stable) you will sail. On a dead downwind course I almost invariably gibe my way to target, beach cat style.

^^^ This. The only reason to go DDW is because you have enough wind to completely power up the boat to hull speed. That’s s going to be 15 to 20 knots for most cruising boats, maybe a bit more.

I think the OP needs to stop focusing on sail area measurements and focus on what is going to move the boat; they are not directly related.

If the wind is soft then really no amount of canvas is going to improve matters if it’s right over your stern. And the rolling and slatting will drive you nuts. You’re far better off sailing a hotter angle, 130-150 depending on what sails you have.

Me? I’d get the Code zero on a top down furler. Or save some money and buy a used socked gennaker. If there’s not enough wind to fly either of those at 140 degrees it’s time to press the start button.

No racer would be caught dead going DDW. The only reason to sail that way is convenience coupled with no schedule. That’s fine if it meets your needs but there are faster ways to sail.

BTW the OP said there was not much room between the forestay and the inner stay...are you sure it’s not s Solent rig? How much room are we talking? 10”? 20”?
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Old 10-08-2018, 12:49   #69
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

I recommend the asymmetrical with a sock. It's simpler and easier to use than a symmetrical kite, you'll use it more.

We have both types of spinnakers on our boat, and no socks, snuffers, or rollers, but I guess we're hard core.

We use the spinnakers for fun, otherwise we pole out the genoa. If it is too light we turn on the engine and motor slowly.
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Old 10-08-2018, 15:22   #70
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

We used a Parasailor from Panama to Tahiti on our catamaran. Great sail, no boom, easy to use single handed, although my wife helps a bit with the sheets. Forgiving sail but eerie at night in squalls, don’t do that.
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Old 11-08-2018, 07:31   #71
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

Use a “Twizzle Rig”.
Sailed from Panama to Galapagos and on to The Marquesas using one.
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Old 11-08-2018, 08:14   #72
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzieblack View Post
We have a 50’ 3” taswell sloop cutter rigged. We sailed Panama to Australia in 2007 stopping at all the coconut run typical hideouts along the way. Panama to Marquises is about 3000 miles it took us 19 days. 2 days each we made 240 miles in 24hrs. Surfing in 30 kts off the port quarter. Only thing faster was the Southern Indian Ocean 40kts 20’ seas for 19 days .. we used an asymmetrical spinnaker.

The correct answer is use neither a asymmetric or code zero. They are both hard to handle and comparatively dangerous when compared to a Doyle top down furling Utility Power Sail (UPS).

The UPS is set on an independent flexible stay ( for us on to a bow sprint) the sail is detachable and easily stored when in port, otherwise is furled on the stay when not deployed. Deploying the sail takes about 1minute 30seconds. Furling takes about 1 minute depending on the wind force. In the Pacific SQUALLS are the big problems. And winds slowly build and makes it difficult to get your spinnaker down.. NOT So with the top down furler.
The top down is just the opposite of a normal furler, furling the smallest part of the Sail first shrinking the smallest size first. It’s just a whole lot easier when the wind picks up.

You can use this rig all the way around the world. Just leave it up while your at sea and take it down in port......(to save the sail from sunlight). Haul it out when winds are light , haul it in when it picks up, or squalls abound.

This is the best sail ever. After a month with this sail it is the only sail we used below 15 kts. It can be rigged for either straight down wind or wind off the quarter all the way to a close reach.
I highly recommend this rig for downwind sailors everywhere.
Call me @ 321-312-8203 if you would like to talk about it or circumnavigating.
This is basically a cruising code zero. I have a code zero on a top down furler and agree with everything you said. A cruising code zero is different from the original upwind code zero,think somewhere between a asymmetrical and a genoa, it can be used as close as 40° (depending on sea state) and almost ddw.

My asymmetrical just dosent come out.
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Old 15-08-2018, 22:42   #73
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

I just sold my Asymetrical and ATN sock. By the time I got to NZ I had used it twice in 5 years. Took up lots of space needed for other things and a hand full if you let the wind get up at all. I think twin Headsails poled out are a great way to go down wind in light airs and best if on Furlers. A code Zero is probably a good way to go.
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Old 16-08-2018, 13:03   #74
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

I got my spinnaker's used, there's a place in Texas, I forget the name they have lots of sails.
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Old 12-09-2018, 02:43   #75
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Re: Sym Or Asym Spinnaker for Panama to Marquesas?

Maybe we have been lucky with the weather but in the last 15,000nm of sailing from France to Tonga we have only put the asymmetric a grand total of 5 seperate occasions. Its taken up so much space and has been pulled in and out of the forepeak so many times to get fenders ect that we now just leave it on lashed on the cabin top.
We don't muck around on passages. 12.5 days across the Atlantic, 16.5 days across the pacific and plenty if 200+nm 24hr runs.
We find the asymetric has a narrow window of fun, under 8kts with a sloppy seaway and its hard to set, over 15kts with a seaway and the autopilot struggles to keep us going straight and you need to be ready to grab a sheet or take over. And the angles are very restrictive. When its just me and my wife and 3 young kids we dont have the energy to muck around with extras.
We have a big 150% genoa and a full hoist inner jib. Great configuration. We often pole the genoa out and use the inner jib as an end plate for the poled genoa and also to stop the roll. It can add half a knot of speed.
Diesel is cheap compared to a new sail and if you choose the right angle use the sails well when motorsailing the fuel economy can be very surprising.
But by all means by as many sails as you want. I can supply a quote as soon as im back in my office in about a month!
It is true that having the right sails for any occasion does make sailing much more pleasurable....
If i didnt have that asymetric i might have been hating life.
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