Storm Prep: Slip or mooring ball?

[Deltasailor]

Originally Posted by Vasco

I left my boat on a mooring ball in the Bahamas once when I had to fly home. Besides the two lines to the mooring ball I unshackled one anchor and took the chain down to the engine block that the ball was attached to. I dived down and shackled the chain to the block and cleated the chain off on deck. The weight was on the two lines but if the lines chafed through or the ball broke away hopefully I would stay secured to the engine block. This is what I would do in a hurricane if the choice were a slip or mooring ball.

I arrived late on a tide in Red Wharf Bay North Wales, just about scraping the bottom got to the first free ball. The tide went out and I inspected the mooring, the riser chain was all but worn through. A member of the club suggested I use my anchor chain. When I returned 2 weeks later the anchor chain was all that kept me from breaking free. Thank you mate

[accomplice]

I've weathered a few storms, including a direct hit from a Cat 4. The best place to ride out a storm depends on many factors, including the fetch, the surge, other boats and of course protection from the wind.

A mooring can be a very safe place to ride out a storm if a few things are done:

* make sure the mooring is big/strong enough and that the chain and swivels are in good shape. we dragged a mooring in 65kt winds that a diver swore would never move.

* put chain on deck -- many boats are lost because of chafe of the mooring pendants. where lines pass over the bow chocks they can chafe -- chain is preferable.

* relieve the strain of the chain on deck by tieing strong lines to multiple strong points on the boat -- genoa sheet winches, large deck cleats, samson posts etc.

* make sure there are no other boats upwind (if wind direction is known). I have seen many boats that would've weathered storms fine, except other boats collided with them.

* strip everything you can from the deck to reduce windage.

I've also seen catastrophic damage in marinas to boats at slips. It depends on many things, including how the other boats are secured and how secure the docks are.

If you have a chance to get hauled, do that. But make sure you're tied down well on land -- many boats on land are damaged in storms too. It may be easier to tie down a cat on land -- not sure.

[zeehag]

iff you choose to use mooring, make sure your lines ar elong enough to not break and not drag the mooring. i have witnessed both in mere winter storms in san diego. winds were measured at 60+ kts. i dragged a mooring anchor 10 ft in san diego coronado moorings when they insisted to my horror i needed to shorten my pennant as i was hahaha too close to neighboring empty mooring. in a storm. nope thankyoou. i would rather be anchored with 2 anchors off my bow in a V formation accounting for wind direction of the storm than be on a tackle unknown alleged mooring.
if you are talking cyclonic event storm, all rules change.
find shelter without runoff danger, and not in a river bed or flood plain.
med tie into mangroves if able, or go into a hurricane hole. make sure bow is into wind during first half
all regions and all storms are different.
do what locals recommend. ask everyone, yotties, fishers, everyone.
if you are mobile, seek a non cane prone area for cane season. hahahahaha good luck with that. or move for each one. will be an adventure.

the way NOT to do it is beam to winds as i was oriented in marina during patricia. much too much wear and tear on nerves marina and boat

hauled is no safer than wet.

wanna figger my experience?? how about 2011-2017 cane seasons mexican west coast with 19-21 of these fun times skimming or threatening. the impressively calm ida in slidell louisianna.
oh yeah survived an intensifying cat 5 direct hit in west coast mex. 2015. makes prolly realistically, 60 cyclonic events. over me.
plus 60+kt storms in san diego-- donot be fooled by the gorgeous weather., those who are year round live on board souls know better, they are deadly. i did that 1995-2011 april. then i cam e to hurricane alley. the real one.

[tn3sport]

Thanks for responses. Quite educational. BTW, I would not try to ride out a storm. Just looking at how to best prepare the boat before I catch the last car away from the coast.

I know there are many variables and factors, many of which are out of my control, that affect the outcome. Sounds like consensus is in this order, assuming you can't haul out:
1) Use ground tackle in a mangrove swamp. aka Hurricane hole.
2) Mooring ball with multiple lines to the ball.
3) Floating dock.

I'm in St. Augustine at a private marina. The Salt Run mooring field nearby, a municipal managed field, is nearly empty with dozens of mooring balls available. Its quite shallow and sandy there. That might be a help in a breakaway situation. Would be tempting to move to a mooring ball, put a couple good lines to the ball and hope for the best. However, the slip I'm in and the 5 or 6 boats around my slip survived Matthew without a scratch. Just a few meters away, the docks lifted over their piling and as many as 25 boats sank. Sank. To the bottom. (Based on hearsay. I get a different story from everyone I ask that was there during Matthew... ) One guy, who's boat survived watched the carnage from shore. He watched the floating docks sink boats they were tied to. Yeah, the dock actually cause the boat to sink. He watch break away boats ram holes into boats. He watched one boat hit an elevated dock sidewalk, roll over and sink right were it was. All large expensive boats in this marina.

No guarantees. I get that. Just trying to be as prepared as I can. Thanks all.

[Taichungman]

Originally Posted by accomplice

I've weathered a few storms, including a direct hit from a Cat 4. The best place to ride out a storm depends on many factors, including the fetch, the surge, other boats and of course protection from the wind.

A mooring can be a very safe place to ride out a storm if a few things are done:

* make sure the mooring is big/strong enough and that the chain and swivels are in good shape. we dragged a mooring in 65kt winds that a diver swore would never move.

* put chain on deck -- many boats are lost because of chafe of the mooring pendants. where lines pass over the bow chocks they can chafe -- chain is preferable.

* relieve the strain of the chain on deck by tieing strong lines to multiple strong points on the boat -- genoa sheet winches, large deck cleats, samson posts etc.

* make sure there are no other boats upwind (if wind direction is known). I have seen many boats that would've weathered storms fine, except other boats collided with them.

* strip everything you can from the deck to reduce windage.

I've also seen catastrophic damage in marinas to boats at slips. It depends on many things, including how the other boats are secured and how secure the docks are.

If you have a chance to get hauled, do that. But make sure you're tied down well on land -- many boats on land are damaged in storms too. It may be easier to tie down a cat on land -- not sure.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lots of good info...but I question this entry:

* put chain on deck -- many boats are lost because of chafe of the mooring pendants. where lines pass over the bow chocks they can chafe -- chain is preferable.

It is true most boats are lost to chafe of the mooring pendants on chocks and anchors left hanging over the bow....but what will chain used as pendants do to your chocks and boat in a hurricane? I think I know but...

Will some seasoned skippers chime in here??

[accomplice]

Originally Posted by Taichungman

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Lots of good info...but I question this entry:

* put chain on deck -- many boats are lost because of chafe of the mooring pendants. where lines pass over the bow chocks they can chafe -- chain is preferable.

It is true most boats are lost to chafe of the mooring pendants on chocks and anchors left hanging over the bow....but what will chain used as pendants do to your chocks and boat in a hurricane? I think I know but...

Will some seasoned skippers chime in here??

When we weathered Gonzalo we did as follows:

We ran two 1" (or maybe it was 1-1/8") amsteel lines from the mooring top chain through the anchor roller, secured down by a 1/2" stainless bolt (the bolt was twisted like a pretzel after the storm, but it still held the lines down). The amsteel lines were each led to bow cleats.

As a backup to that we ran a loop of chain from the mooring bottom chain up one of the bow rollers, around the windlass/samson post and shackled to make a loop over the windlass. We used a 1/2" stainless bolt across the top of the anchor roller to hold the chain in. We used two genoa sheets tied to this chain loop led back to both primary winches. Secondary lines attached the chain loop to midship cleats. This way, unless the line stretched significantly or broke, the chain was held off the windlass. The windlass -- through bolted with multiple large diameter stainless bolts through 2" of deck with backing plate was the last resort.

Other than the twisted stainless bolt holding the amsteel lines in the roller, the only markings on the boat from these chain were some scrapes on the stainless inside sides of the bow roller.

I wouldn't anchor like this every day, but when faced with very real potential loss of the vessel, I wanted to make sure the deck would rip off it before the mooring lines let go. If I had it to do over again in the same circumstances, I would do the same thing.

[rpjn59]

The problem with moorings is that you may not know the quality of the mooring. Engine block, utterly rediculous. Think about how easy it is for the bow of your boat to lift, say in a four ft. swell with several adults, its no contest. A good mooring needs to generate many thousands of poundz of resistance to be effective. Thats where say a screw anchor gets it strength it uses the weight and cohesive strength of the soil. Another problem, with mooring is lack of scope in the attachment, they're mostly vertical. So all that lifting force generated by the water via surge and wave is putting a massive strain on the bow, its not uncommon to see bow sprits busted off because the lines were lead forward thru the bow roller instead of out the fairleads. I would find my best hole and anchor up/tie up.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by tn3sport

This is my marina after Hurricane Matthew hit in 2016. Not sure how many were lost. I've heard 15 to 25 were sank as they were tied to their slips.


In case the image doesn't show up, here's the link: https://www.google.com/search?q=conc...gk5vrFdbSf-zM:

About 100 meters away is a mooring field. I wonder how these boats would of faired tied to a mooring ball as opposed to being tied to a slip (floating dock)

Is there a preference when a storm approaches and you are unable to get the boat hauled out? There's plenty of mooring balls available. Seems like letting the boat spin bow first into the wind on a mooring ball might have a better chance. (Assuming said mooring ball holds...If it doesn't hold I guess your vessel becomes a battering ram for other vessels. From what I hear, most sinkings were due to being ramped by rogue vessels during the hurricane. Some sank due to being tied to floating docks that over-lifted their pilings.)

Just wondering given those two options: Mooring ball or floating dock slip. Which has the best chance of survival?

JMHO, I would prefer to be on a good mooring. Knowing what the ground tackle is.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Suijin

The US Naval Academy has a lot of boats in the water, in slips, and maintains "hurricane holes" all the way up the Severn river, with a few mooring balls in every protected cove and creek. They'll move a majority of their boats to them if a storm threatens, and most of their slips are fairly well protected to begin with.

I think part of the calculation is how well protected the mooring field is and where the surge/swell is going to be coming from. Also, unless the mooring fields are well maintained you're sort of playing Russian roulette.

I don't know about their "boats", but they often move their ships out to sea away from the storm.

Probably not something most of us are in a position to do.

[pskudlarski]

Would it make sense, when staying on the mooring to drop an anchor with extra scope as well, maybe taking it up the predicted wind on dingy, as an additional backup?

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by pskudlarski

Would it make sense, when staying on the mooring to drop an anchor with extra scope as well, maybe taking it up the predicted wind on dingy, as an additional backup?

Maybe but like most of the other ideas and suggestion, it depends.

When I rode out Matthew the wind shifted about 150 degrees as the eye passed east of me. However, even with the large wind shift it might have been good insurance to put an anchor out in the direction that would have held me off the nearby concrete pier if the mooring had dragged. Problem was the moorings were pretty close together and there was a high chance of the anchor fouling on another mooring, a boat drifting by or even my own boat as it swung around.

But bottom line, it's another tool in the box to consider if circumstances warrant.

[powsmias]

Originally Posted by tn3sport

This is my marina after Hurricane Matthew hit in 2016. Not sure how many were lost. I've heard 15 to 25 were sank as they were tied to their slips.


In case the image doesn't show up, here's the link: https://www.google.com/search?q=conc...gk5vrFdbSf-zM:

About 100 meters away is a mooring field. I wonder how these boats would of faired tied to a mooring ball as opposed to being tied to a slip (floating dock)

Is there a preference when a storm approaches and you are unable to get the boat hauled out? There's plenty of mooring balls available. Seems like letting the boat spin bow first into the wind on a mooring ball might have a better chance. (Assuming said mooring ball holds...If it doesn't hold I guess your vessel becomes a battering ram for other vessels. From what I hear, most sinkings were due to being ramped by rogue vessels during the hurricane. Some sank due to being tied to floating docks that over-lifted their pilings.)

Just wondering given those two options: Mooring ball or floating dock slip. Which has the best chance of survival?

Wondering how the boats in puerto rico will fare on moorings since they tie off at the stern.. i mentioned that at my marina and got crosseyed looks but may be the move.

[tn3sport]

FOLLOWUP FROM OP:

Well, I got my answer. My boat was in a marina just off the ICW in St. Augustine. The dock master strongly recommended I move out of their marina. I took their advice and found a secure marina slip in an abandoned resort. (Floating docks with 15 foot high posts). It was opened by the city for the shrimper fleet and recreational boaters. Many liveaboarder, like myself, got in there. All boats in that marina survived with zero damage. Side note: Shrimper crews are ********... They didn't want any recreational boaters in their secret hurricane hole... (Harassing the women, letting their dogs defecate on the docks, and running generators 24x7) Me and my trusty 357 Magnum had no problems or issues with the Shrimpers, but others reported some harassment I mentioned above.

At any rate,
After the storm, I saw several boats crashed against the St. Augustine bulkhead walls south of the fort. Its reported that 8 mooring balls broke away in the municipal field. To be fair, the dock master there, did tell everyone to relocate before the storm. Those that stayed assumed their own risks. Some met their fate.

Had I stayed at my original marina in my slip, I would of sunk. It broke apart and sank a 36 foot boat that stayed. Some of their concrete docks were seen floating in the ICW near the Atlantic channel entry. Near total loss for that marina. But, they did the right thing by warning all boaters and taking precautions. They will rebuild and be fine.

So, what did I learn?
1) Heed the dock masters warnings. (I did and survived)
2) Know where hurricane holes are or haul out. (I found a secret place by talking to a local with loose lips...)
3) Mooring balls are not a good place.
4) You can never have too much alcohol provisions to ride out a pre-storm, storm, and post-storm.
5) The people that keep their diners, bars, and small businesses open after evacuations are heroes. Might be greedy, but heroes.
6) Met some great new friends in the hurricane hole. I've been there 6 days now. The small hurricane hole became a tight community that watched out for each other. (Except the Shrimper crews. They were ******** and intentionally blocked slipped other mariners could of used.)

Final note: There was a homeless camp near this abandoned marina. There was initial concern about the security of the boats as a couple of the homeless guys wanted "protection money". The boaters took anther approached and asked them to help us as temp dock hands, helping boaters tie up, relocate a couple of derelict vessels, etc. We paid them with a collection from a few boaters and gave them a few beers. This might of built some comradery with them. Who knows. We got a couple hours work out of them before they said, **** you, and when back to their tents... They all reloated to the county shelters when the storm hit. They are just now coming back to their camps today. To date, we've had no problems. But, it was kinda strange having them walk the docks and gawking at your gear for a couple days.