Starting to sail with a ketch

[Wind459]

Hello all, I'm about a week away from getting my first sailboat, ( 32 ft 1967 privateer), she is a ketch. I've only taken a hand full of sailing lessons, all of which have been on a sloop configuration. All the material Ive been reading has been on this setup as well. Can you suggest any videos or reading materials dealing with the basics of handling a ketch rig? I know a lot of stuff is similar but it be nice to have the differences spelled out.

[gjordan]

Unless you are in a very light wind area, I would say to leave the mizzen down until you are comfortable with the rest of the boat. There are plenty of things to learn with a new (to you) boat, so it wont hurt to leave the mizzen alone for the first dozen or so sails. When you decide to start playing with it you will find there are other options for use other than just another sail. Mizzen staysail, Mizzen spinnaker, and various combinations of your working sails. Just have fun and learn in small doses. Just my 2 cents worth._______Grant.

[StuM]

You may like to read this thread: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ers-76189.html

[ctl411]

Google will find a few more threads on ketch trim and sail options. If you don't find a answer post a new question. There are a few ketch sailors around that will try to answer.

[UNCIVILIZED]

It's kind of an obvious one, but still, many don't know this. And it's that on some ketches, the mast isn't well supported in the for & aft direction. So that before you start flying mizzen staysails or spinnakers, it's necessary to hook up, or even design & install, proper running backstays.

The other of course is to use lots of telltales, & other tools which will show you the wind flow over the rig(s) & sails. And to start, more's better. As with such a rig you can at times get some squirrly backflow, & updrafts off of things.

Which, instruments are one area that can get affected by this. Though I couldn't tell you how to well compensate for it in a ketch. Perhaps someone else could? As reasonably well dialed in instruments surely would be useful for tracking the true performance of various sail combinations, & the effects of various sail tuning & trimming tools.

[TeddyDiver]

Originally Posted by gjordan

Unless you are in a very light wind area, I would say to leave the mizzen down until you are comfortable with the rest of the boat. There are plenty of things to learn with a new (to you) boat, so it wont hurt to leave the mizzen alone for the first dozen or so sails. When you decide to start playing with it you will find there are other options for use other than just another sail. Mizzen staysail, Mizzen spinnaker, and various combinations of your working sails. Just have fun and learn in small doses. Just my 2 cents worth._______Grant.

I'd suggest just the opposite, leave the main down if you don't happen to be in a hurry and learn to balance the boat with whatever combinations mizzen and headsails, in all directions as heave to first..

BR Teddy

[Whitebread117]

That's a little boat to have a Ketch rig. Our Ketch is 42' and just big enough to justify the extra complexity of the rig imo.

Close hauled run main and jib only. If you have a triatic stay then hook up your windward running backstay.

Beam reach to broad reach all 3 sails in moderate winds, reef (or drop) the main first as winds build. In storm conditions you'll probably most comfortable with only a deep reefed main, but up to that point the "jib and jigger" jib and mizzen is the easiest to handle.

If you want to sail off your anchor a Ketch is easy. The mizzen is your rudder. If you want to turn to starboard push the mizzen boom to starboard as the anchor breaks free and the bow will nose over to starboard pretty as you please- it's an easy way to look salty

Enjoy- a beam reaching Ketch is the best looking boat on the water imo.

[carlheintz]

I'll post my vote for Teddydiver.... try using the jenny and the mizzen first. I think you will find it's an interesting combination, but depending upon the rig, you may feel underpowered a little.

Also, take her out with only the main up, and see how she handles. That will give you some interesting input.

I guess what I'm saying is experiment, and don't worry about "how it looks" -- it's fun to see what happens with different combinations of sails

Stay away from staysails, spinnakers and other exotic sails until you are really familiar with the boat. UNCIVILIZED's post is spot on.

Finally, ignore the danged instruments. Get some tell-tails, and put them around on the stays and the sails. The only instrument I would use is the speedometer, just to see how you're doing.

Have fun!

[S/V Alchemy]

I agree that 40 foot and above is really the low-end of practical ketch rigging, but below 40 foot ketches are so rare, I have never sailed on one. I will say that a ketch is a very versatile rig, save for going to weather, where you cede a few points to cutters and sloops. But in terms of trim and tracking, ketches have real advantages and you can often trim to the point of self-steering once you grasp the nuances of trimming this rig.

Just make sure your rig elements are in good condition and are properly tuned. The forces are such that you can't sail with slack stays without asking to damage something, so check from chain plates to tangs that all is well. After that, experiment in 12 knots AWS in all points of sail. Make notes. You may find that in big air, the "jib and jigger" (another word for mizzen sail) is a very smooth way to go. Other variants off the beam are staysail and mizzen, or reefed down mizzen and reefed main for running off. It's all a see-saw sort of physics in which the rudder has forces fore and aft, so steering under sail is a little different than with a sloop-riggged boat. Have fun.

[dick sargent]

In my experience, the ketch rig is the most "friendly" sail combination compared to a sloop or cutter. My wife and I cruised the Pacific and Caribbean for 25 years aboard my 44' ketch. In that time we usually "split rigged" at night when one or the other of us was sleeping. Rarely did we need to awaken the off watch member if the wind piped up. You sound experienced, but if not, start with jib-only to see how she handles. For a learner, jibing with the jib-only demonstrates the consequences of mainsail jibing. Also, if she handles well under jib, and your single handling with no engine, it allows for rapid luffing and dousing when anchoring in a crowded anchorage. In gale force weather a partially rolled-in jib and the sea state along with the natural windage of the hull sometimes balances out well. In simliar conditions, a reefed mizzen-only sometimes works fine as well. Over stressing a boat is just as damaging as over stressing the body. Go slow and steady. Best wishes.

[CRANBERRY]

U would strongly agree with teddy, Use your missen and headsail The boat will be better balanced and when you need some more GO use your main. This is a great combination and will allow you to comfortably handle conditions that a sloop will struggle with. Enjoy!!!

[buzzstar]

You have seen, on this thread, and the one mentioned early on by StuM, one of the great advantages of the ketch rig -the many available sail combinations. HOWEVER, there is no need to get fancy until you have the basics well established. UNCIVILIZED identified something you do need to know about your rig -that is know your rig and its potential weaknesses so you act accordingly. In the end, the best way to learn, as several have put forth, is to practice, practice, practice, which translates to sail, sail, sail as much as your circumstances allow. Then read or re-read in between. As someone else suggested, do not forget to learn to heave to. Just to add a piece of celery to the suggestion soup: create and keep a log (not necessarily the ship's log, but that is up to you) about the details of what you do, including sails, combos, speeds, winds, problems, lack of problems, control, comfort, sea conditions, and anything else that you think might be worth recording for future reference and use. boats are a bit like people, they have comfort zones that depend upon many different things.