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05-06-2014, 12:19
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Boat: Club Sailor; various
Posts: 922
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Standing Rigging Affects Pointing?
What would cause a boat to consistently point higher on one tack to windward than the other.
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05-06-2014, 12:43
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: PDQ Capella 36
Posts: 136
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Re: Standing rigging affects pointing?
The windward side where you are getting bad pointing is probably too loose. Do you have access to a tension gauge? Many racers have one knocking around.
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05-06-2014, 12:51
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#3
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,184
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Re: Standing rigging affects pointing?
How are you determining that this is really the case? If you are using an apparent wind indicator, it is quite possible that it has not been correctly "centered". That is, when you are truly head to wind, it isn't reading zero. IME, getting that set exactly right is not a trivial task... at least on my boats.
Otherwise, it can be due to an asymmetrical keel, a slightly bent rudder shaft, or a canted mast.
Cheers,
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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05-06-2014, 14:42
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#4
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29° 49.16’ N 82° 25.82’ W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 16,306
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Re: Standing rigging affects pointing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate
How are you determining that this is really the case? If you are using an apparent wind indicator, it is quite possible that it has not been correctly "centered". That is, when you are truly head to wind, it isn't reading zero. IME, getting that set exactly right is not a trivial task... at least on my boats.
Otherwise, it can be due to an asymmetrical keel, a slightly bent rudder shaft, or a canted mast.
Cheers,
Jim
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Yes, all the above. Also, if there is significantly more weight on one side of the boat, like batteries in the port locker, water or fuel tanks on the port side then the boat will sail more upright on the port tack and probably point a little closer.
__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
Sometimes it's necessary to state the obvious for the benefit of the oblivious.
Rust is the poor man's Loctite.
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06-06-2014, 13:39
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#5
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1976 Sabre 28-2
Posts: 7,505
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Re: Standing rigging affects pointing?
Many boats are layed up in two halves then joined together. Possible that the mold for one side has slightly better hydro dynamics resulting in better pointing on one tack. If the boat has a bolt on keel, that could be an issue as well. Keel castings are usually pretty rough and shape not completely symmetrical from side to side. Last but not least, if it's a bolt on lead keel, it could have been twisted in a grounding resulting in a different angle of attack
__________________
Peter O.
'Ae'a, Pearson 35
'Ms American Pie', Sabre 28 Mark II
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06-06-2014, 13:45
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Cowichan Bay, BC (Maple Bay Marina)
Posts: 9,706
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Re: Standing rigging affects pointing?
Many ways to simply say that boats aren't perfectly equal on each side. Inside or out. Don't sweat it, it's a reality.
__________________
Stu Jackson
Catalina 34 #224 (1986) C34IA Secretary
Cowichan Bay, BC, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)
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08-06-2014, 12:16
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Mackinac Island
Boat: Albin Nova 33
Posts: 68
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Re: Standing rigging affects pointing?
I'd say take a halyard from one rail to the other to see if your mast is centered. You'd be surprised how far off it can get.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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09-06-2014, 05:05
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 312
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Re: Standing rigging affects pointing?
I'm with JIM CATE on this one.
Setting up my new masthead wind instrument has taken months of fine tuning, and even then your still guessing.
....." Sail directly into the wind and adjust the analog pointer to zero, using the
vmg and tack keys. If you are unable to achieve the required degree of accuracy
due to sea conditions, and errors become apparent during subsequent tack operations, repeat this procedure to achieve alignment accuracy"...
Its all hocus pocus. at then end of the day, I've adjusted mine so that my tack angles are equal, whether they are truely or otherwise. No one can steer perfectly into the wind at zero degrees yet this is the means by which you are expected to calibrate the device. Think of the wind instrument as a guide. Otherwise sail the boat by the feel and by the tell tails.
__________________
"Second Wind"
Lagoon 440 Hull #30
Brisbane, Australia.
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09-06-2014, 18:07
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#9
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Senior Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: San Antonio, TX/Bocas del Toro, Panama
Boat: 1990 Macintosh 47, "Merlin"
Posts: 2,844
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Re: Standing Rigging Affects Pointing?
Lots of good advice above. It's also not unusual to find differences - Catalina 30s have chainplates in different spots from port to starboard!
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09-06-2014, 19:27
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Caribbean live aboard
Boat: Camper & Nicholson58 Ketch - ROXY Traverse City, Michigan No.668283
Posts: 6,367
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Re: Standing rigging affects pointing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu Jackson
Many ways to simply say that boats aren't perfectly equal on each side. Inside or out. Don't sweat it, it's a reality.
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I've never had a boat that didn't have a preferred side. Also, if your prevailing winds and prevailing waves are consistently mis-aligned in the area you usually sail, you could be persuaded that one tack is always better.
As far as rig tension. Try both tacks and lie at the base of the mast and compare the mast bend and slack in the leeward shrouds. You should easily see a difference.
I never have been able to get my apparent wind instrument centered. I just deal with it mentally.
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09-06-2014, 20:21
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Niagara 35
Posts: 1,878
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Re: Standing rigging affects pointing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Wind
I'm with JIM CATE on this one.
Setting up my new masthead wind instrument has taken months of fine tuning, and even then your still guessing.
....." Sail directly into the wind and adjust the analog pointer to zero, using the
vmg and tack keys. If you are unable to achieve the required degree of accuracy
due to sea conditions, and errors become apparent during subsequent tack operations, repeat this procedure to achieve alignment accuracy"...
Its all hocus pocus. at then end of the day, I've adjusted mine so that my tack angles are equal, whether they are truely or otherwise. No one can steer perfectly into the wind at zero degrees yet this is the means by which you are expected to calibrate the device. Think of the wind instrument as a guide. Otherwise sail the boat by the feel and by the tell tails.
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Or just go out on a day with zero wind and motor in a straight line. That will give you your zero. Helps if you sail somewhere like the PNW in summer where you actually get days with zero wind.
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09-06-2014, 20:51
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#12
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,974
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Re: Standing Rigging Affects Pointing?
The only boats I have sailed that didn't favor one tack over the other had extensive work done to acomplish it. For anything but a well funded racing program it really isn't worth it, once you know how your boat handles you can decide how to respond.
__________________
Greg
- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
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03-07-2014, 07:04
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: DC
Boat: other people's boats
Posts: 71
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Re: Standing Rigging Affects Pointing?
Can't believe no one's mentioned jib leads yet. Obviously if they're in different places you'll have a different shape and different pointing abilities. Even if they're in the same spot according to holes in the track, there's no guarantee that the tracks are symmetrical.
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