Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 28-08-2018, 07:19   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Northport NY
Boat: Pearson 10M
Posts: 441
Stand on vessel?

Please explain the following, I thought it was stand on, not stand on top.

How can this happen? Crash survivor tries to explain
sagablu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 07:57   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Maine
Boat: Sabre 34-2
Posts: 48
Re: Stand on vessel?

The sailboat is the stand-on vessel (assuming the engine was not running), but if the captain did not take any maneuvers to avoid an inevitable collision, he may share some of the blame. If the engine in the sailboat was on even with the sails up, the powerboat was stand on as it was approaching from the sailboat's starboard from the look of things.
doug1957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 11:19   #3
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,018
Images: 6
Re: Stand on vessel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug1957 View Post
...if the captain did not take any maneuvers to avoid an inevitable collision, he may share some of the blame.
It is very likely that he will share at least some of the blame, even if he did take maneuvers. It is EXTREMELY rare -- like, almost unheard of -- for both captains not to get at least some little bit of the blame when two boats that are both underway collide. The only cases that I have heard of where one captain got 100% of the blame, the other boat was anchored.


Of course, it might be a 98:2 split of the responsibility, but still, it is almost always split.
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 11:28   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Northport NY
Boat: Pearson 10M
Posts: 441
Re: Stand on vessel?

Just a guess, but the power boat was a fishing charter. I assume he has some type of license. That would make him more responsible, yes? Higher expertise, higher responsibility I would think. Anyway, Chet has some explaining to do.
sagablu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 11:44   #5
Moderator
 
Jammer's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Minnesota
Boat: Tartan 3800
Posts: 5,027
Re: Stand on vessel?

Power boat was reportedly going 30 kts according to an account from a knowledgeable passenger who was aboard. Winds were light. Sailboat captain was trying to contact power boat on the radio and was unsuccessful because powerboat's radio was turned off.


In light airs they would have had to start a turn while the power boat was at least a quarter mile away. I think it would have been difficult to judge whether a turn would make matters better or worse in the very limited time available.


At that point action by the give-way vessel alone would have been sufficient to avoid a collision and so perhaps they would still have a responsibility as stand-on vessel to hold their course. Perhaps someone who knows the finer points of the colregs can comment.
Jammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 12:29   #6
Registered User
 
denverd0n's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,018
Images: 6
Re: Stand on vessel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagablu View Post
I assume he has some type of license. That would make him more responsible, yes?
Not necessarily. He would be expected to know the rules of the road, but then ignorance of the rules is no excuse either.
denverd0n is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 13:49   #7
Registered User
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,891
Re: Stand on vessel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by doug1957 View Post
The sailboat is the stand-on vessel (assuming the engine was not running), but if the captain did not take any maneuvers to avoid an inevitable collision, he may share some of the blame. If the engine in the sailboat was on even with the sails up, the powerboat was stand on as it was approaching from the sailboat's starboard from the look of things.

Please, No!
This point has been discussed numerous times here.
A "powered vessel" is one "propelled by machinery"
A sailboat is a "powered vessel" only when "propelling machinery is being used".
Having the engine on in neutral does not make it the give way vessel.


As for sharing the blame, yes - he probably should. He saw the approaching powerboat in plenty of time according to him and it appears from his reported statements that he did not take avoiding action in accordance with Rules 17 (a) II and b. It takes two to tango.
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 13:58   #8
Registered User
 
Opie91's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: CT
Boat: C&C 34
Posts: 1,056
Re: Stand on vessel?

Busy making a sandwich with the autopilot on. Explains everything.....
Opie91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 14:23   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Jupiter FL
Boat: temporarily boatless...
Posts: 803
Re: Stand on vessel?

Looking at the photo, here's what puzzles me: the powerboat wasn't going fast enough to pass completely over top of the J and off the other side, yet it was a perfect T-bone, even at what must have been a relatively lower than maximum speed. Regardless of the level of fault for the sailboat skipper (which I think there will be some, for failing to avoid a collision), the operator of the powerboat had to be paying no heed whatsoever to potential obstacles in his course, to have a T-bone collision at that speed. Just my perspective. Pete
pete33458 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 14:43   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 269
Re: Stand on vessel?

What action would you suggest the sailboat take? Turn his stern toward the oncoming powerboat, which would like have resulted in two fatalities? Turn his bow toward the powerboat, leading to a head on collision? The sailboat captain made every effort to gt the powerboat's attention. No way the sailboat is in any way at fault, not even 2%.
jmorrison146 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 14:48   #11
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, in Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 28,863
Re: Stand on vessel?

Here's a link to a pre-existing thread on the same subject: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...rn-206075.html

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 15:19   #12
Registered User
 
StuM's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Port Moresby,Papua New Guinea
Boat: FP Belize Maestro 43 and OPBs
Posts: 12,891
Re: Stand on vessel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmorrison146 View Post
What action would you suggest the sailboat take? Turn his stern toward the oncoming powerboat, which would like have resulted in two fatalities? Turn his bow toward the powerboat, leading to a head on collision? The sailboat captain made every effort to gt the powerboat's attention. No way the sailboat is in any way at fault, not even 2%.

I'd have turned to stdb. Much smaller target and if a collision did still occur, the chances of the two vessels just sliding down each others side would be greatly increased.
StuM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 19:07   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Southport CT
Boat: Sabre 402
Posts: 2,766
Re: Stand on vessel?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
I'd have turned to stdb. Much smaller target and if a collision did still occur, the chances of the two vessels just sliding down each others side would be greatly increased.
Maybe. If, in the light air, you have steerage. Or until you think about the mast coming down into the cockpit as the charterboat perhaps cuts through the forestay and then definitely takes out either the port or starboard shrouds. It may take a your sailboat five seconds to make the turn to starboard if it's moving at 3 knots in the light air and you put the tiller down. With the powerboat approaching at about 30 knots, five seconds puts it more than 200 feet from you when you go to make the turn. You have tried to reach them via radio and are hailing as loudly as you can. All the powerboat helmsman needs to do is jog the wheel a tad and he hits you head on or misses you entirely, regardless of what you do. It's all on him; what-ifs are beside the point.

This episode reminds me of the story about the driver complaining to the ticketing officer that the steamroller "suddenly darted out from a side street".
psk125 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 19:14   #14
Registered User
 
leftbrainstuff's Avatar

Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Diego CA
Boat: Liberty 458
Posts: 2,205
Re: Stand on vessel?

I see far more violations (or ignorance or laziness) in regards to the rules of the road. Powerboaters seem to only go in straight lines, commercial and recreational fisherpersons seem to ignore everyone and everything and USCG (love em) radio operators speak way too fast.

The most important rule is to avoid colliding with anything. Rocks, the bottom, other boats, logs, f$#king crab pots and maniac powerboaters to name a few.
leftbrainstuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 21:02   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Out of Norfolk Va
Boat: Tartan 37
Posts: 687
Re: Stand on vessel?

A boat going 30kts is closing at 50ft/sec. A sailboat in light air will slow to almost a stop during tack and takes about 10 sec to tack. So the sailboat moves a couple boat lengths while the fast boat travels 500ft. How much can he do?
puffcard is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
USCG vessel certification location on vessel Cavalier Training, Licensing & Certification 9 08-02-2017 09:49
Stand on Vessel? 44'cruisingcat General Sailing Forum 21 11-02-2016 01:42
Autopilot does not equal Stand On Vessel! mstrebe Navigation 98 18-08-2015 20:01
Dual Vessel Views -vs- Single Vessel View on Dual Cummings MV WOLFPACK Marine Electronics 0 12-04-2014 06:45
Vessel on a Vessel rj_whitten Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 7 27-03-2011 08:10

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:15.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.