Sistership EVER FORWARD Run Aground in the Chesapeake

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Snore

Rather surprising findings! While I can understand relying more heavily on the portable pilot system he brought with him. He KNEW those charts were current. But not relying on ships nav? Having 5 non-essential phone calls, one lasting an hour, and drafting emails? And the biggie---- NOT looking out the window.....

I am speculating that bridge dynamics were probably such that the pilot thought he was a token presence who had no actual influence on navigation. The mistake he made was that then he mentally checked out. The phone calls are the symptom, not the problem.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I am speculating that bridge dynamics were probably such that the pilot thought he was a token presence who had no actual influence on navigation. The mistake he made was that then he mentally checked out. The phone calls are the symptom, not the problem.

Seems the opposite in terms of dynamics. With the master at dinner, only the 3rd officer, an A/B, and a cadet were on the bridge with him. But yes, definitely checked out. I suspect the relativity problem at play: Any task that will "take but a minute" can easily eat up an hour before one realizes the loss of time.

The other part is, what's the word... orneriness, I suspect. I can understand not trusting the ship's equipment (although you should be able to verify basic settings), but disregarding it entirely as well as disregarding the lighted buoys (report mentions he claimed they were unhelpful) is a very bad sign.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I am speculating that bridge dynamics were probably such that the pilot thought he was a token presence who had no actual influence on navigation. The mistake he made was that then he mentally checked out. The phone calls are the symptom, not the problem.

Its my understanding where Pilots are compulsory he has command of the bridge..

The pilot assumes control of the vessel from the time of arriving on the bridge, usually just before entering port, until handing control back to the master after docking.

[requiem]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its my understanding where Pilots are compulsory he has command of the bridge..

The pilot assumes control of the vessel from the time of arriving on the bridge, usually just before entering port, until handing control back to the master after docking.

I have always heard it as "pilot's advice, master's orders", with the caveat that in a few rare locales the pilot actually does take full control. Making the call to overrule the pilot can be a tough call, especially if you are not familiar with the local waters. Hesitancy to speak up may also be in play, particularly if the captain isn't on the bridge as in this case.

[Sailor Sailor]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Must have been a CF member.. seems to be the 'in thing'..

Yes, I agree, advocating cell phones for navigation and rescue is an odd position. The proponents seem to be proselytizing: you must be converted to their point of view.

So true of American culture, the more idiotic and outrageous your belief, the more passionately you must advocate for it. Maybe a few of them have some financial interest in cell phone apps justifying their nonstop advocacy. Otherwise, it seems totally out in left field, just stupid and unnecessary when one can buy a dedicated handheld GPS mapchart unit for a couple hundred bucks.

In this case, use of the cell phone underway resulted in millions of dollars of damages. It makes me wonder how these folks who use their cell phones while navigating block all distracting phone calls and text messages.

One of the highlights of my day is taking a long walk with my dog, admiring nature and looking at the scenery. Every day, I see some poor soul with his or her eyes glued to the screen walking along with their smartphone, oblivious to all the beauty and interesting sights around them.

[goboatingnow]

Tbd U.K. mca was very clear of the dangers of negotiationimg passing arrangements by direct ship to ship communication by wherever means. Especially where such arrangements contravened the COLRegs.

It said it’s too easy for confusion to occurr

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Sailor Sailor

In this case, use of the cell phone underway resulted in millions of dollars of damages. It makes me wonder how these folks who use their cell phones while navigating block all distracting phone calls and text messages.

Airplane mode. It also preserves the battery life.

The incoming call lasted 28 seconds, the outgoing just over 55 minutes. I could see someone similarly distracted if they tried to quickly knock off another chapter in a dead-tree novel or sat down with paper, quill, & ink to hand-write a strongly-worded letter about the line-handlers, but perhaps the bridge crew would be more willing to speak up in such cases.

To me the key problem is the time gap that use of the device can create, which ties back to the old concept of position fixing intervals...

[requiem]

Originally Posted by Chotu

That’s the cool thing about displacement boats. You can typically pay attention to navigation, do something for 20 minutes, and then check again. You might have to turn in half an hour.

So, position fixing intervals. They should be such that you can't run into danger in the time between them. If you're a few hours from land, then you should be safe if you are re-checking every 30 minutes. If you're 30 minutes from land, then a 30 minute check could find you on the beach.

For a ship in a channel, that upcoming turn in 30 minutes isn't what defines the interval. Rather, it should be based on how long it might take to drift out of the channel (e.g. if the helmsman is busy steering to the compass and no-body else notices the tide is setting you towards the shallows).

Can you read a text in that time? Very likely. Should you answer it? Probably not, unless it's a simple yes/no. The mental check should be structured around that: simple response vs. "I need to explain". Too often people want to reply immediately and switch focus. Creative work (reading/writing) should be right out unless you 1) have the time and 2) have an alarm.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Its my understanding where Pilots are compulsory he has command of the bridge..

The pilot assumes control of the vessel from the time of arriving on the bridge, usually just before entering port, until handing control back to the master after docking.

although this is pretty much what happens, it's not technically true. master always remains in command (and can be held to blame), except in a few clearly defined cases, such as panama canal

technically pilot is there solely to'advise' the master

as i said, this is not actually how it works in practice but it is the legal situation.

cheers,

[JPA Cate]

In human factors, there's a lot we don't know. I agree with Jammer, that the pilot "checked out" attention-wise. But why?

Here are a few thoughts I had:

Was the incoming call a family emergency?

Was there a language barrier? Could the pilot communicate with the crew in the control room?

What Boatman61 said above about the pilot taking command of the vessel, and how it is done is common practice here in Oz. Further discussion with our pilot friend said that she had to speak slowly, distinctly, and loudly for the ship's recorder, too, as some of the skippers didn't like turning his vessel over to a female to control, and would mumble. Whereas, she had to get the consent recorded on the black box.

I would not expect many fluent English speakers aboard any foreign flag vessel, maybe only one person. If that person is at dinner, well then, there goes your comms.

Ann

[requiem]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Was there a language barrier? Could the pilot communicate with the crew in the control room?

I would certainly hope so, part of STCW requirements include basic English and the ability to use and understand the IMO Standard Marine Communication Phrases (IMO SMCP). There shouldn't be any confusion about navigational communications, but as to how well that works in practice... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As to fluency in English, that's of course a totally different question.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by requiem

I would certainly hope so, part of STCW requirements include basic English and the ability to use and understand the IMO Standard Marine Communication Phrases (IMO SMCP). There shouldn't be any confusion about navigational communications, but as to how well that works in practice... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

As to fluency in English, that's of course a totally different question.

Do a transit of the Singapore Strait and you will see the continuous use of English between ships and VTS where english is a second language for both parties. Maybe not english as we know it but english never the less.

The only words the 3/0 had to understand from this 'pilot' were 'starboard' 'five' 'midships' 'steady' and 'steer xxx degrees'. They weren't going to be discussing Peruvian politics.

Re the 3/0 not pointing out to the pilot that he had passed/missed the 'wheel over point' he would have had about 30 seconds to think and articulate 'oh **** he has missed the wheel over point, excuse me sir ......'

[skipperpete]

The process of becoming an officer, helmsman or watchkeeper on the largest container ship in the world is long and demanding, only the best get to work in that bridge team. The ECDIS screens would have shown the proposed course including turning arcs as well as the actual COG and the helmsman would have had no doubt about what was about to happen after the pilot failed to order a course change but absolutely no authority to speak out. ( I think someone on the bridge did though). That would be a career ending move and the next flight back home.
Pilot incompetence is fairly common even here in Australia, one missed the turn at Caloundra entering Brisbane and occupied the beach, another out of Burnett heads hit Lady Elliot island and there has been at least 2 major incidents in the Torres straits ( one was the worlds largest container ship at the time of its grounding).

[ChrisJHC]

I’m also surprised that the master was not on the bridge during one of the most critical parts of the passage.

Re English language skills, many years ago I had cause to be on a number of cargo ships in an official capacity.
I remember one where the only person who spoke an okay level of English was the Filipino comms officer and he couldn’t speak much Korean (the language of the rest of the crew).

[HeywoodJ]

The 65 (well, maybe 64 now) members of the Association of Maryland Pilots make an average of US$485,000/year. They manage 4000 vessel transits of the Chesapeake in that year, which works out to 61 transits/year or just over one per week.

Unconscionable that with that work schedule a pilot can't manage to stay off the phone during a transit.