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Old 05-08-2023, 13:11   #1
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Securely Tie Off to a Piling

Hey All,

A few months ago I posted about buying my first small sailboat. I ended up finding one that fit my budget in the size and setup I wanted (1987 Hunter 23), and I have finished the work it needed to get it launched. I took the ASA 101 class, I took an extra two days to sail with an instructor, and I am reasonably confident that in a protected bay, I can broadly point in the right direction and avoid catastrophic collisions.

The question I have though is that my slip is not alongside a full walkway with cleats, it has cleats in the front and two pilings in the back. This is different from any slips or docking I have previously practiced on, so I am a bit confused as to;

1) what is the best way to secure the boat to the pilings? Is there a specific knot or set of knots that is better for longer term tie-up to a piling? I saw a few videos about quick-release knots for tie-up to a piling, but they focus on ease of release, and I will be tying up for days at a time during the week, I prefer security over quick-release.

2) when approaching the slip single handed, how would one secure the boat to the pilings when entering the slip? My fear is that in the time it takes to secure to the piling, the bow will drift into a neighboring boat. And if I secure the bow first, I risk the stern doing the same, and also being out of reach of the piling. Would I want to simply have a loop to throw on the piling to start? Or should I try to affix a line permanently to the piling and grab it with a boat hook as I enter the slip?

I have attached a diagram here if it helps. And if there is an existing written guide that goes over this situation that I should read before soliciting advice, by all means I would be happy to read it.

Thanks,
Mike
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Old 05-08-2023, 13:14   #2
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

Mike, that is quite a popular mooring system in Northern Europe. Perhaps google "box mooring" or "piles" and the same on You Tube.

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Old 05-08-2023, 13:23   #3
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

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Mike, that is quite a popular mooring system in Northern Europe. Perhaps google "box mooring" or "piles" and the same on You Tube.

Pete
Aah, thank you! It was the first time I had seen one in the US, I didn't even realize they had a name.
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Old 05-08-2023, 13:36   #4
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

A bowline is my preference for the lines around the pilings. If possible run a longer line taut from each piling to a dock cleat. That gives you something to pull the boat around the slip with a boat hook. It also helps hold the dock lines from sliding down the piling. In the worst case the boat can lean against those lines and keep it from going too far into the neighboring slip.

When docking pay attention to the wind direction and always get the upwind lines first. When singlehanding (bow in first) my preference is to reach for the stern line when the piling is just in front of the helm. I can get that secured while the boat is still moving slowly, then go forward for the bow line.
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Old 05-08-2023, 14:13   #5
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

I have never had to tie to one of those (west coast sailor, lucky me) but I read a lot on boating forums. Like David says, what folks do at their home slips is to PREarrange an easy way to tie up. Many ideas, one of which is to install a line holder on the piling that you can easily grab by hand or boat hook and attach to your boat when you come in. Remember that your jib sheet winch is just as good as a cleat when you come in and can rearrange lines to the cleat on your boat after you get settled. Also, I used to be a proponent of adjustable boat hooks, because all I ever used them for was sticking into my boats locker and for picking lines up from the double sided slips I lived in from 1983 to 2016. Since I moved to BC with its bullrails, I've learned that they are worse than useless because they uhm move when you push or pull on them. I've since graduated to fixed boat hooks which you may find more useful for your piling pickups. Good luck.
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Old 05-08-2023, 15:39   #6
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

Some of the piles we've used have a ring that slides on a bar fixed to the pile, so it will go up and down with the tide when your line is tied to it. Things like that do better if you put the line around it twice, seems to cut down chafe. I also sometimes make an extra turn around, even if I'm tying a bowline, for that reason, cuts down chafe.

Often, people put hooks for the line to be held, so you can grab it with the boat hook, and a line tight from the pile to the cleat on the dock will help keep you from a big foul up with the adjacent boat.

Take a close look at how the guys set the piles up for their use who have similar size sailboats.

Ann
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Old 05-08-2023, 16:16   #7
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

I have a similar set up. I have "permanent" lines on the pilings, one of which is a springline. The spring line would be the top left in you drawing. We drop the spring line over our midship cleat when coming in.

With judicious use of the throttle & rudder position, I can have the bow just kiss the dock, or move the boat as needed to easily pick up any line. Very occasionally, I'll use a temporary spring line from the port side.

It's very easy with two people, and easy enough when single handing.
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Old 05-08-2023, 17:05   #8
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

Our slip is similar to yours. We have fixed cleats forward and two pilings aft. We fix the lines to the pilings and tie up the bitter end to the boat. Fixing the lines at the pilings (to answer your question) are not really knots but self tightening loops fashioned from smaller spliced loops with bitter end run through or smaller loops made with bowlines. This allows the dock line to stay in position at what ever elevation you choose on the piling. We loop the slack dock line on a cleat on the piling (if you don’t have can add) when we leave the slip and on return pick up with a boat hook.
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Old 06-08-2023, 03:59   #9
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
... Things like that do better if you put the line around it twice, seems to cut down chafe. I also sometimes make an extra turn around, even if I'm tying a bowline, for that reason, cuts down chafe ...
Indeed.
Limit [sawing] movement, and you limit chafe.
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Old 06-08-2023, 12:22   #10
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

Davidasailor has it right. When you frame the slip (lines running from the dock to the pilings on both sides) docking is much easier, even singlehanded. Besides the benefits David explains, these lines are a great place to leave your lines when you leave. Place the framing lines about the same height of your cleats at mid tide. I highly recommend leaving the lines on the dock & pilings and having set lines with a loop for each end. This way when you come in, you have the framing line to help control the vessel and hold the dock lines out of the water. Even with inexperienced crew most of them should be able to grab a line & put the loop on the cleat - no measuring or tying.

Lay lines on. Loops only
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Old 06-08-2023, 15:13   #11
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

If the pilings aren't too high, you can use a clove hitch.

A Retired Coast Guardsman showed it to me years ago be he did it much faster than the folks in the video.

He did it in like 2-3 seconds.

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Old 06-08-2023, 16:08   #12
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

This is the most common mooring system here in baltics. The bow cleats on the pier are self explanatory, you can either tie there, or just wrap the line there and tie both ends on the boat).


The aft pilings, you can either make a loop on the mooring line before approaching the dock and throw the loop over the piling and tie the single line on the boat cleats (in that case there would be bowline on the line at the piling and cleat hitch on the aft cleats), or just toss the line around the piling and tie both ends at boat's cleat (in that case there would likely be a bowline near the cleat with the loop pulled through cleat, line round the piling and cleat hitch back on the cleat.


Preferred docking order with at least one other person is (if the wind is blowing from either aft or from bow) to tie up one of the upwind lines first, and then do the rest, since the boat is not going anywhere.



In crosswind docking, you need to secure both upwind ends ASAP, which is doable with a crew, but quite difficult when singlehanded.



Crosswind docking is a even more difficult when singlehanded, and honestly, I admit I usually get blown on the downwind neighbour. But I guess that's what the fenders are for, right?


Theoretically, it should be possible to just secure the upwind/sidewind cleat and motor against it, but I've never had much success with aiming the stationary boat exactly where I want to. That's where the following advice comes up:



I'm not sure if you're allowed to do it, but here it's quite common to tie a permanent line between each piling and the pier/walkway. You can hold onto them with a boat hook should there be high crosswind, you can even muscle boat in/out, and even if there's not a neighbouring boat to lean onto, if you **** up totally, you won't get stuck sideways or something like that...
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Old 07-08-2023, 16:53   #13
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

What do the other boats on your walkway have set up? What the majority have is probably the best solution. As others have suggested, it might be good to leave lines tied to the outer pilings so that you can grab them first, as you go by. If you mark the right place on the line you can cleat them before the stern comes even with the piling. Crew (or you) can then go forward with the bow line, get onto the dock and cleat it, without worrying about the bow hitting the dock (because you've already cleated the stern line at the right spot.) From what you've drawn, it would make the most sense to tie off the starboard side first because the dock projection makes getting off the boat on that side easier. Then use the boathook to grab the port piling line, and then secure the port bow. Wind & current might change the equation to make cleating the port stern first, then the starboard bow, or the starboard stern then port bow. Practice will show you what works best for you and your boat. Coming in slowly and gently is a good idea. Like MrKva says, the boat is small enough for you to be able to manhandle it from the dock if you have to.
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Old 07-08-2023, 19:50   #14
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

the others have given great advice about leaving lines on the pilings that you can grab when you get in, plus some hook attached to the pilings to hold the lines out of the water so you can grab them more easy. You can drape the line over the hook.

If you need to tie to pilings that are not your home base, my preferred method is to make a clove hitch around the piling to keep the line from slipping down the piling. Then take the loose end and make another clove hitch around the line leading back to your boat. The second hitch helps keep the whole clove hitch on the piling from rotating and lengthening the line to your boat unexpectedly.
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Old 07-08-2023, 20:55   #15
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Re: Securely Tie Off to a Piling

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The question I have though is that my slip is not alongside a full walkway with cleats, it has cleats in the front and two pilings in the back.
Yeah, places do that, I don't like those.

Quote:
what is the best way to secure the boat to the pilings? Is there a specific knot or set of knots that is better for longer term tie-up to a piling? I saw a few videos about quick-release knots for tie-up to a piling, but they focus on ease of release, and I will be tying up for days at a time during the week, I prefer security over quick-release.
There are a number of strategies that work OK. Typically, the pilings will have some sort of shelf or hook or at least a big nail or whatever that will keep the loop of your dockline from falling all the way down into the water. If not, maybe think about adding one.

One way to deal with them is to have a long (18") eye splice in the end of your dockline and put the eye over the piling. Then the other end of the dockline goes to a cleat on your boat, so you can adjust the length conveniently. This is simple and secure, but can be difficult to release unless you're able and willing to leave the line on the piling. (You can substitute a loop with a bowline for the eye splice while you're still figuring out lengths etc)

Another way to deal with them is to have an eye splice in the end of your dockline cow hitched to your open-base cleat, and then have the bitter end go around the piling and back to the cleat where you tie it off with a cleat knot. This requires a longer dockline since it's doubled, and it's more fiddly to set up, but can be more reliably released since you can just let the bitter end go and pull on the standing end. (again substitute a bowline to experiment)


A third alternative is to have a measured piece of rope spliced in a continuous loop, which is easiest for singlehanding, which I'll talk about in your next question...


Quote:

2) when approaching the slip single handed, how would one secure the boat to the pilings when entering the slip? My fear is that in the time it takes to secure to the piling, the bow will drift into a neighboring boat. And if I secure the bow first, I risk the stern doing the same, and also being out of reach of the piling. Would I want to simply have a loop to throw on the piling to start? Or should I try to affix a line permanently to the piling and grab it with a boat hook as I enter the slip?
Right, so, that's the problem.

Yes, one good solution is that you can have a continuous loop of rope that is the right length made up, and then you throw that over the piling as you arrive, and put it over your aft cleat. With a smaller boat like yours you can sort of muscle it in if you're being blown away from the piling. The disadvantage is that it's perhaps less secure on your cleat than a single line tied in a cleat knot, though if you twist it up and loop it around the cleat a couple times it will probably be OK.


(while you are experimenting you can use a rope loop made with a Zeppelin Bend or a Butterfly Bend or whatever)


Grabbing with a boathook works too. I like to run a piece of bungee cord through the dockline with a fid, at the right spot, and then use hog rings to make the bungee cord into a loop so that I have something easy to grab with the boathook.

In theory once you get that line on you can use it like a spring and control the bow with the prop and rudder (or outboard as the case may be). In a strong crosswind it won't work as well as you might like.

In that situation I like to have fenders on the bow, on the side facing the neighboring boat, in case things go pear shaped. That gives you time to lasso a cleat with your bow line. You can also do the thing where you permanently place a heavy dockline as a divider between your slip and the neighboring slip, though the geometry is such that you may pull the piling forward on a windy day instead of stopping your boat.
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