Scuttle The Boat When Abandoning Ship?

[Lepke]

If you abandon a vessel I believe you are creating a "menace to navigation" and liable for damage to other vessels or clean up if it comes ashore and makes a mess.
In the navy, we were called to sink an abandoned upside down tri-hull 500 miles off S. Cal. We only had small arms or 5" guns. It's hard to hit a semi submerged hull, but did put some small holes in it. It didn't sink, but rode lower (now maybe a bigger menace).

[DumnMad]

Originally Posted by Frugal

Having been there and done that. The last thing in mind at the time was to scuttle. Far more important was to maintain Leprena II as an effective backup if the rescue went awry. The sink drain was left open and it was the lowest point of entry for seawater. She would have gone down in her own good time.

I tend to agree with this philosophy.

Seems the "danger to navigation" is usually way overstated. Its hard enough to search for and find an abandoned boat let alone accidently run dead centre into it.
In most areas there's much more chance of hitting one of the many containers or the hundreds of thousand of whales out there.
Maybe a different decision if in a busy seaway.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

The downside for you guys that think the wife should sail in it back which is only 3 days....well I'd put my money on Anne but the average wife who knows little about sailing is going to turn around and beat upwind against the trades for maybe a week or ten days before reaching home port. Would probably make more sense to continue on to Hawaii. Just a thought.

Yes, she would be almost 1/2 way there, into her sea watch keeping schedule, so could take the Boatie approach, and sleep his usual night time. Nicer sailing conditions, too, although beating into the trades has been done. Easily able to arrange a flight out to SD pretty much on arrival, unless he was well enough to return to her. Again, for couples to arrange for themselves, but an idea well worth weighing, against the convenience of having everything together when you arrive.

Frugal, thank you for sharing. Hard decisions, glad you're here to give us well informed input.

Stumble, good thoughts: it really is necessary to have an abandonment plan and a retrieval one, too.

Boatie, let me emphasize for you how terrible that woman must have felt as her husband disappeared in the wake--how futile the second thoughts at that point, "Oh, how I wish......"

Ann

[Dave22q]

If your mate cannot take over in circumstances like this than shame on you. A responsible captain trains all on board. If the boat represents a minor portion of your wealth, leave it and hope for a recovery. Worry about the insurance company later.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

If your mate cannot take over in circumstances like this than shame on you. A responsible captain trains all on board. If the boat represents a minor portion of your wealth, leave it and hope for a recovery. Worry about the insurance company later.

Yes, but we have some guys on CF who are convinced their wives don't want to learn. There's no way on earth you can force someone to learn something they really don't want to. You have to address the reluctance, first. Even asking her to complete a course as a favor to you might not work. What would you suggest someone in that position do? It's a hard one.

Some guys have seemed to accept the deficit, and she's willing to go. It's on her.

Ann

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

If your mate cannot take over in circumstances like this than shame on you. A responsible captain trains all on board. If the boat represents a minor portion of your wealth, leave it and hope for a recovery. Worry about the insurance company later.

You can lead a horse to water but.. you can't make it drink.. and some folks love their horse's..

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

If your mate cannot take over in circumstances like this than shame on you. A responsible captain trains all on board. If the boat represents a minor portion of your wealth, leave it and hope for a recovery. Worry about the insurance company later.

Dave....that's a bit harsh....you don't choose your partner based on their ability to take over as Captain on a stressed boat mid Ocean.
Yes, teach them to sail and practice MOB, but if your partner is not a confident decision maker, you need to build that self belief slowly, while being extra cautious to not put yourself in jeopardy.

I do agree that you constantly teach and more importantly empower, but always be realistic about expectations for someone to take command.

[Dave22q]

[QUOTE=Ann T. Cate;2306575]Yes, but we have some guys on CF who are convinced their wives don't want to learn. There's no way on earth you can force someone to learn something they really don't want to. You have to address the reluctance, first. Even asking her to complete a course as a favor to you might not work. What would you suggest someone in that position do? It's a hard one.

Some guys have seemed to accept the deficit, and she's willing to go. It's on her.

Ann[/QUOTE
No! It's not at all hard. It's always on the captain. If your mate does not want to or is unable learn you need to adjust your plans accordingly. If you are willing to take her into blue water untrained, shame on you. It is very simple, you do not endanger those you love (or are responsible for)! EVER! It's not complicated, blue water or the mate, pick one. Some women like water sailing">blue water sailing. Of course they might not like you.







n

[Pelagic]

I don't know if this business plan is practical, but something to consider selling to Insurance companies as an added coverage for offshore passages.

Let's call it...
Yacht Recovery Premium

A salvage company of trained sailors are registered to fly out with Coast Guard in the case of a medical or physical emergency that has overwhelmed the crew....who have sent out a Mayday.

Salvage crew replace the injured skipper and/or bring the added pumps, jury rig gear to save the boat.

Owners have then not abandoned, but have replaced crew under an added Insurance cover.

For those who have good SAR services and doubt their ability to handle severe stress, this added cover might be attractive.

[toddster8]

Originally Posted by boatman61

If you do scuttle don't brag about it.. who's gonna go out and check..

I can remember at least one time that an insurance company sent out a contractor to investigate. But IIRC there was a fatality involved in that case. Maybe a big life insurance policy? They found the wreck, but didn't observe anything useful. My brother was the ROV driver.

[DumnMad]

[QUOTE=Dave22q;2306594]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Yes, but we have some guys on CF who are convinced their wives don't want to learn. There's no way on earth you can force someone to learn something they really don't want to. You have to address the reluctance, first. Even asking her to complete a course as a favor to you might not work. What would you suggest someone in that position do? It's a hard one.

Some guys have seemed to accept the deficit, and she's willing to go. It's on her.

[/QUOTE
No! It's not at all hard. It's always on the captain. If your mate does not want to or is unable learn you need to adjust your plans accordingly. If you are willing to take her into blue water untrained, shame on you. It is very simple, you do not endanger those you love (or are responsible for)! EVER! It's not complicated, blue water or the mate, pick one. Some women like blue water sailing. Of course they might not like you.n

What the??? If you are that perfect how come you are in the water or your boat is in trouble?
Of course its the skipper's fault whether the mate is trained or untrained.
But as for whimps who would never ever endanger those they love - no playing sport, no car rides, no crossing the street, no eating food at a restaurant etc etc. Just plain unrealistic dream land.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Yes, but we have some guys on CF who are convinced their wives don't want to learn. There's no way on earth you can force someone to learn something they really don't want to. You have to address the reluctance, first. Even asking her to complete a course as a favor to you might not work. What would you suggest someone in that position do? It's a hard one.



Some guys have seemed to accept the deficit, and she's willing to go. It's on her.



Ann

Ann, it's not that easy. I never, ever could get my wife to learn how to land our airplane, and by that I mean a soft crash, the kind where everybody is OK, airplane maybe not, she would just not do it.
So it was either accept that even in the event of a heart attack I was going to have to get it down, or us not fly. She started out terrified by the flying thing, but wasn't long before we were in a level 5 Thunderstorm on the way to the Bahamas and I was sweating big time, I looked over at her and she was reading her Kindle.
Now on the boat thing, I know if I push at all, she will push back and it's not going to happen. I have to wait until she wants to and she has begun, mostly watching but has started stowing lines and asking a question every now and again, and I have to make darn sure that even if she caves in the bow on a concrete dock that I laugh and say thats ok Babe, don't worry about it. But it's only logical that she helm the boat while I handle the lines, but you rarely see that.
The other option is what I see every now and again, Capt Bligh who is bound and determined to teach her, and that is not going to work for us, I don't think it ever works really.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Ann, it's not that easy. I never, ever could get my wife to learn how to land our airplane, and by that I mean a soft crash, the kind where everybody is OK, airplane maybe not, she would just not do it.

Maybe the cost of practising put her off?

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

....
...... She started out terrified by the flying thing, but wasn't long before we were in a level 5 Thunderstorm on the way to the Bahamas and I was sweating big time, I looked over at her and she was reading her Kindle.

Lol....that confidence in you is either true love or blissful ignorance, but it is often the reality of relationships.

I am lucky that my partner of 12 years has slowly grown in self confidence to become a really good sailor, despite her traditional Asian upbringing.

I just have to remind myself that when she questions my sailing decisions....
That is a good thing ! [emoji1]

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Yes, but we have some guys on CF who are convinced their wives don't want to learn. There's no way on earth you can force someone to learn something they really don't want to. You have to address the reluctance, first. Even asking her to complete a course as a favor to you might not work. What would you suggest someone in that position do? It's a hard one.

Some guys have seemed to accept the deficit, and she's willing to go. It's on her.

Ann

The learning teaching thing is interesting, whos responsibility is it, the guy to teach or the lady to learn?
I had a woman onboard for 3 months several years back that said to me at the end" you didn't teach me much" my answer was you didn't learn much! People that really want to learn ,learn. I'm personally not going to bust my ass trying to teach someone , im no ones parent, if they generally want to learn then they will use me to learn, ie I will teach.
My experience is that most women are happy to let the bloke have all the responsibility.
Eg. My partner is onboard and intends to sail to Africa with me this year, never does she say "hey I'll drive the dinghy as I need to get more familiar with it"....my job isnt to motivate her to learn skills she's not actually passionate about. I had one lady onboard in 2015 that was really into the sailing, she would learn as much as she could, because she wanted to.


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