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double u · 07-08-2019, 01:04

our southbound Panama Canal transit of 1997. 37' aluminium sloop, tiller steering. Advisor already helming for quite a while, we are going through "the cut", a northbound ship is approaching, we have to get out of it's way a little further. Advisor turning the tiller - the wrong way, of course the boat responds by turning into the path of the oncoming ship with a tighter turn, advisor puts the helm hard over - we are turning the wrong way even more. "Move the tiller the other way!" I tell him. He does with the desired result. "You have to move the tiller to port if you want to turn to starboard" I tell him "Oh you changed it!" he replies...
apparently while steering in a straight line before the encounter with the freighter the delay of our boat in responding to his little course corrections was just right to coincide with his next correction the other way & so made him think "tiller to right-boat turns right. That one clearly saw the head of the tiller where it joined the rudder shaft, obviously no hidden mechanics involved, had apparently not come to his attention. No harm done this day as there was still enough room to maneuver...
a Panama Canal advisor, no less...

GrowleyMonster · 07-08-2019, 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by double u

our southbound Panama Canal transit of 1997. 37' aluminium sloop, tiller steering. Advisor already helming for quite a while, we are going through "the cut", a northbound ship is approaching, we have to get out of it's way a little further. Advisor turning the tiller - the wrong way, of course the boat responds by turning into the path of the oncoming ship with a tighter turn, advisor puts the helm hard over - we are turning the wrong way even more. "Move the tiller the other way!" I tell him. He does with the desired result. "You have to move the tiller to port if you want to turn to starboard" I tell him "Oh you changed it!" he replies...
apparently while steering in a straight line before the encounter with the freighter the delay of our boat in responding to his little course corrections was just right to coincide with his next correction the other way & so made him think "tiller to right-boat turns right. That one clearly saw the head of the tiller where it joined the rudder shaft, obviously no hidden mechanics involved, had apparently not come to his attention. No harm done this day as there was still enough room to maneuver...
a Panama Canal advisor, no less...

Are pilot/advisors now required on boats under 60'? I think I would have been a little bit upset with that guy, me. And I believe I would have steered my own boat on the return journey.

double u · 07-08-2019, 12:52

they were already required in 82 & still are in 2019, no matter how small the boat

Pelagic · 07-08-2019, 16:23

Pilots are there as advisors, They are not there to steer the boat, or dock the boat.
Their function is to have local knowledge of depth contours, currents, local practices with other vessels and to liaise in local language with those assisting, be it tugs or line handlers.

Legally they have no responsibility for the Vessels safety, so you should all remember this adage:
Pilot's advice, Captain's Orders!

It amazes me on some super yachts that many captains are not aware of the legality and allow Pilots to steer and even dock their ships.

It is best to have a very formal relationship with Pilots and keep them quiet and focussed as some of them are clueless

MarkSF · 07-08-2019, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by unbusted67

Several people on here have commented that the current rips through there. Is it possible that these guys are standing still and unable to really do much getting out of the way because they aren't' making way?

Making way = moving through the water

Current has no effect on that.

Current affects your speed over the ground.

If moving against the current, your maneuvrebility is increased not reduced.

double u · 07-08-2019, 18:08

No „Pilots“ for our size boats, only „advisors“. They are launch skippers or other small- boat drivers making an extra $ with overtime. Competence & ego varying widely. The one 97 guy was small on the former but compensated with a big Ego. This time (2/2019) we had 2 extremely good guys in every aspect.(but then it cost us 20 or so $ in 97 & 900 this year...)

IslandHopper · 04-12-2020, 01:18

Elbe No.5 on the road to recovery....OCTOBER 7, 2020 (Google Translation)

The pilot schooner No. 5 returns to Hamburg and brings back memories of the tragic accident in 2019.

Today the pilot schooner No. 5 "Elbe" back to Hamburg. After the tragic accident last year, the 37-meter-long classic is now on its way to its home port. In the late afternoon, the ship will arrive again on its own keel - and will also pass the site of the accident last June .

The two-master got into a serious collision with a container ship on Whit Saturday 2019. After the ship had a leak, it ran full of water on the Lower Elbe immediately after the 43 people on board had been rescued. A few days after the accident, we went on the "Elbe" by coaster to Denmark for repairs - for the second time within two years.

Second renovation in two years
Because the pilot schooner had only returned from an extensive refit from the north shortly before the accident. The ship was brought ashore at Hvide Sande Shipyard for the repair work on the gutted wooden hull. Right at the beginning, the copper plates were removed from the collision point in the front area of the fuselage. The collision damage to the keel and keel pig came to light.

The shipyard workers dismantled the interior walling and planking in order to determine the number of frames to be replaced. In the months that followed, the Danes, in coordination with the Hamburg Maritime Foundation as the owner of the ship, carried out the structural repair work on the damaged area.

Arrival today in the Hansahafen
Yesterday morning the time had come: I'm going home! With the “Elbe” on the hook, the tug “Bugsier 15” set course for Hamburg from the Danish North Sea coast. At 11 o'clock the duo of tug and schooner was sailing up the Elbe at 4.2 knots near Cuxhaven. The arrival at the Bremer Kai in Hamburg's Hansahafen is expected between 5 and 6 p.m. today.

It will be a small arrival because the work on the ship is not yet finished. The ship remains at the Bremen quay for the reconstruction of the interior and the rigging as well as the installation of new ship technology.

The accident of the pilot cruiser led to uncertainty among the operators of classic ships. Because the Federal Bureau of Maritime Casualty Investigation recommended in the accident report that “urgent action must be taken to increase the sinking safety of traditional ships that carry more than 12 passengers”. In the opinion of the BSU, a collision bulkhead should become mandatory. The authority's proposal could have far-reaching consequences for traditional shipping. Because the "Elbe" has no such bulkhead.

More about the pilot schooner No. 5 Elbe can be found on the website of the Hamburg Maritime Foundation .

https://stiftung-hamburg-maritim.de/...no-5-elbe.html