Sailing/Sculling Dismal Swamp ICW

[seandepagnier]

Originally Posted by S/V Adeline

Science has revealed that during the last 1 million years this planet has gone through this cycle 15 times (currently in the 16th cycle).
....

"this cycle" ? Which cycle?

The last time co2 levels were this high was more than 3 million years ago. Everything what you just said is incorrect and not science.

The fact is you can go cruising anywhere without using an engine. I don't think you need to sacrifice traveling or cruising: just stop needlessly polluting.

It is only natural I take a dim view of those who make choices that negatively affect everyone.

[S/V Adeline]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

"this cycle" ? Which cycle?

The last time co2 levels were this high was more than 3 million years ago. Everything what you just said is incorrect and not science.

The fact is you can go cruising anywhere without using an engine. I don't think you need to sacrifice traveling or cruising: just stop needlessly polluting.

It is only natural I take a dim view of those who make choices that negatively affect everyone.

I am amused that you stated the CO2 levels 3 million years ago AND that the scientific research that tells us those levels is incorrect and *not science*. You do realize everything I stated was from the exact same research, right? Perhaps if you were alive when this data was first presented you might understand more how older generations feel about *modern* climate change propaganda. (I was not alive when it was presented but grew up in the last years of discussions before it was swept under the rug-to be introduced later as *man made* climate change) Millions of years of verifiable evidence has to be disregarded to support the claims that humans are causing climate change. We can be much better stewards of the planet, but the planet's life cycle will continue regardless. Humans could die off tomorrow and the cycles will continue. This is the primary reason it was swept away to begin with, there is no solution to stop the process, but people sure have managed to make it a political and financial opportunity.
It's obvious to me that we (at least myself) could enjoy many hours on this topic, as there are so many contributing factors and interpretations of evidence, but this isn't the place. We both know we would not change the other's position anyway.
I hope you keep sculling your vessel, wish you fair wind and following seas! Tried once to maneuver our Safari 27 that way, would never deliberately head out that way. Much respect for you on that point!

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

SNIP

It is only natural I take a dim view of those who make choices that negatively affect everyone.

You fail to realize lots of folks take a dim view of what you are doing.

[thomm225]

Okay.

On a lighter note, I finally got my new Raspberry Pi 4 all cased up with fan before I destroyed it.

Not a bad size for a computer with 4 GB RAM and 1.5 GHZ processor.

Next will be getting the AIS and GPS coming in. Adapters are on order

I may need a better monitor, keyboard, and mouse though.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Seems like there is a lack of agreement on the actual details. One guys says strong breeze, other guy says light breeze. One guy says he was in danger of being blown aground; other guy says that is not true. No mention of other traffic which could be a factor.

As someone who has actually skulled a boat I have to say maintaining a constant course and speed is not as easy as it sounds, especially in a cross wind which is what seems to be the case if a boat was worried about being blown aground.

In an ideal world both boats would be monitoring CH16, communicated with each other, and worked things out. Problem is using a VHF usually requires one hand and moving an oar to skull requires two hands. Even if there are no other boats around I would not be in the middle of a channel; but that is because in the ICW in Florida I always expect a 50 foot motor boat going 30 knots to be just around the next bend. Again we have no idea if the boat was in the middle of the channel; but to me that would be a problem.

A second issue for me is if a boat going three knots is overtaking you then every other boat will be overtaking you. At some point in a narrow channel this can be an issue that may rise to the level of a hazard to navigation.

Bottom line is you never get a second chance to make a first impression; and in this case the first impression was not a good one.

This is the problem with someone making a comment about an area they know nothing about.

There are lots of narrow creeks and rivers up here, and we normally always run the middle because usually there is no one else around

Someone comes you simply ease to the right and he passes. Simple as that.

Also, it's very rare that you are ever anchored near another boat up here up one of the many rivers or creeks

We're not talking the main ICW that you are.

Here anchored up the Severn River up Mobjack Bay. I was hiding from a strong North wind that had just come in while I crossed the bay East to West.

I saw one boat in 24 hours from this spot. (forgot to stop the play list before filming)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWwQ4iUfiyM

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

......

It is only natural I take a dim view of those who make choices that negatively affect everyone.

Yea, I agree. It's kinda like when some cruiser pisses off the customs and immigration officials that then makes it difficult for other cruisers who follow on behind.

[carlosproa]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

I also want to clear up that I am no "genius" not by IQ or any other standard I know of. I am good at a few very specific tasks and at many things I am below average.

I also do not criticize others for what does not affect me unlike most of the posts of this thread.

Using an engine on your boat does negatively affect me and everyone else. If you deny this you deny science. You can go cruising to all the same places and have a great experience.


I have good reason to be critical of those who use engines.

I have been reading this rather long book titled SAPIENS by Yuval Harare, about why Homo sapiens displaced all other hominids ( Erectus, Neanderthal,Denisovian, etc); good reading why we behave the way we do - but getting back to relevance of this topic - seafaring has been a part of human history as far as 50,000 years ago when Australia was populated from what is today Indonesia. This is before the agricultural period. Only in the last 200 years or so, engines became a reality in sailboats. Using a long par for propelling a boat is done everyday in most Asian maritime communities, from big Chinese junks to small craft. I think is a choice that most of us won’t implement as it interfere with our modern schedules, but there is no reason to look down upon those who has chosen this route. I do understand the debate about fossil fuels, but keep in mind that most fiberglass boats are made from fossil fuels... even the lumber that you would buy to make a wooden boat requires lots of fossil fuel; from the gas in the chainsaws, to the diesel on the trucks, to the electricity to kiln dry the wood, to the preservatives to prevent plank degradation. Any anti foul paint contains petroleum based elements, the copper mined in Chile and Peru uses...diesel power to extract the ore, and on and on.
I guess my point is to invite the group to be tolerant with lifestyle choices, and to remember that things are not binary

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

I have been reading this rather long book titled SAPIENS by Yuval Harare, about why Homo sapiens displaced all other hominids ( Erectus, Neanderthal,Denisovian, etc); good reading why we behave the way we do - but getting back to relevance of this topic - seafaring has been a part of human history as far as 50,000 years ago when Australia was populated from what is today Indonesia. This is before the agricultural period. Only in the last 200 years or so, engines became a reality in sailboats. Using a long par for propelling a boat is done everyday in most Asian maritime communities, from big Chinese junks to small craft. I think is a choice that most of us won’t implement as it interfere with our modern schedules, but there is no reason to look down upon those who has chosen this route. I do understand the debate about fossil fuels, but keep in mind that most fiberglass boats are made from fossil fuels... even the lumber that you would buy to make a wooden boat requires lots of fossil fuel; from the gas in the chainsaws, to the diesel on the trucks, to the electricity to kiln dry the wood, to the preservatives to prevent plank degradation. Any anti foul paint contains petroleum based elements, the copper mined in Chile and Peru uses...diesel power to extract the ore, and on and on.
I guess my point is to invite the group to be tolerant with lifestyle choices, and to remember that things are not binary

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

SNIP

I guess my point is to invite the group to be tolerant with lifestyle choices, and to remember that things are not binary

Lots of bashing of lifestyles that do to things like motoring through locks, using motors at all, and in general conforming to the way the majority of cruisers do things.

It is hard enough dealing with a frightening increase in the number of new laws and regulations being imposed on cruisers. Like it or not having a filthy looking boat being powered only by skulling will only increase the demand for more rules.

Sad to say a lot of this has to do with money. While folks may not like it the fact of the matter is it takes money to cruise and the way things are going the amount of money it takes is gonna be more; not less.

Folks who try and get by on a shoestring are making matters worse for those who have the financial means to cruise with out not making those who live on dirt mad; and never forget there are a lot more people living on dirt than cruising.

While it is easy to say live and let live when doing something causes problems for the majority of folks on the water don't expect universal sympathy.

[Giro]

Tomfl’s point is well taken. Look at all the many homeless people there are living in our cities. All things said, I think we would all feel a it more sympathetic toward “potty mouth” if she were not so vulgar and down right nasty toward people she meets along the way.

[barryglewis]

I've sculled a 5 ton 32ft yacht a couple of times over a kilometer or so, once in the Hawksbury, and once in Rabaul harbour, with a long sweep. It was very hard work and very slow.
Are the "scullers" discussed in this thread actually using a yuloh? I've read they are more powerful than ordinary sculling, and just need the yuloh pushed side to side, the strap on the handle rotating the blade, one of the photos seemed to show a strap?
Has anyone actual experience with a yuloh?
Going enginless in world setup for engines is a very hard row to hoe, especially for heavier craft

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by tomfl

Lots of bashing of lifestyles that do to things like motoring through locks, using motors at all, and in general conforming to the way the majority of cruisers do things.

It is hard enough dealing with a frightening increase in the number of new laws and regulations being imposed on cruisers. Like it or not having a filthy looking boat being powered only by skulling will only increase the demand for more rules.

Sad to say a lot of this has to do with money. While folks may not like it the fact of the matter is it takes money to cruise and the way things are going the amount of money it takes is gonna be more; not less.

Folks who try and get by on a shoestring are making matters worse for those who have the financial means to cruise with out not making those who live on dirt mad; and never forget there are a lot more people living on dirt than cruising.

While it is easy to say live and let live when doing something causes problems for the majority of folks on the water don't expect universal sympathy.

I think there's room for all.

And as far as that filthy boat, you are still basing that on a few old pictures which were taken AFTER the guy had crossed the Pacific, Indian, and Atlantic Oceans on that very same boat!!!!!!!. In other words, he had already cruised......FOR YEARS! On very little money.

I have a $2,000 boat and have yet to cruise full time but have been sailing it all over the bay and in the ocean close by for the past 8 years. (same type boat btw 1974 Bristol 27)

I'm thinking I can can probably do it on my $2,000 boat for $1,500/month or less with $500 extra here and there and still maintain a home on the mainland for extended family and myself when I have to get off the boat.

Also small boats are easily made to look messy, but can be easily cleaned up, painted, old curtains replaced, lamps replaced, electronics updated, sails replaced, and dodgers repaired or replaced.

As far as the electronics, that has been made very cheap with Openplotter, OpenCPN, Raspberry Pi Computers, and GPS Dongles.

[carlosproa]

Originally Posted by barryglewis

I've sculled a 5 ton 32ft yacht a couple of times over a kilometer or so, once in the Hawksbury, and once in Rabaul harbour, with a long sweep. It was very hard work and very slow.
Are the "scullers" discussed in this thread actually using a yuloh? I've read they are more powerful than ordinary sculling, and just need the yuloh pushed side to side, the strap on the handle rotating the blade, one of the photos seemed to show a strap?
Has anyone actual experience with a yuloh?
Going enginless in world setup for engines is a very hard row to hoe, especially for heavier craft

I built a Yuloh many years ago to propel a 25 ft pacific proa I built a while ago. It is quite easy but repetitious and the line tied to the handle makes a huge difference as there is little effort. I took my design from a Japanese web site based on drawings, I do not know Japanese so I monkey copied what I saw and make some small changes. My Yuloh oar was very long but I adjusted my expectations to the large size
I hope now there are more examples how to build one, here is one

[barryglewis]

Originally Posted by carlosproa

I ... Only in the last 200 years or so, engines became a reality in sailboats. Using a long par for propelling a boat is done everyday in most Asian maritime communities, from big Chinese junks to small craft. I think is a choice that most of us won’t implement as it interfere with our modern schedules, but there is no reason to look down upon those who has chosen this route.

I [B]do understand the debate about fossil fuels, but keep in mind that most fiberglass boats are made from fossil fuels... even the lumber that you would buy to make a wooden boat requires lots of fossil fuel; from the gas in the chainsaws, to the diesel on the trucks, to the electricity to kiln dry the wood, to the preservatives to prevent plank degradation. Any anti foul paint contains petroleum based elements, the copper mined in Chile and Peru uses...diesel power to extract the ore, and on and on.[/B]

I guess my point is to invite the group to be tolerant with lifestyle choices, and to remember that things are not binary

Yes, if you sail a modern yacht then you have already bought into benefiting from a huge amount of fossel fuel. To then turn round and say cruising yachties shouldn't use engines ...

[barryglewis]

Carlosproa, thanks for that, interesting. What is a "Pacific Proa"?