Sailing into headwind - cruising, not racing

[Wotname]

Some more tips for you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzuCEyZ7gOQ

and this has some good tips

Beating to windward

[jmorrison146]

If your instruments provide VMG (Velocity Made Good), enter the destination as a waypoint and watch the VMG to the waypoint/destination. When the VMG starts to go down it's time to tack.

[JPA Cate]

Carlos, it's a sail for the better part of the daylight hours, and I have never had the wind, sea state, and currents stay the same for the whole time! and we've been cruising full time for 29 yrs. That's probably why I didn't answer the question, sorry about that.

QUOTE=SVRocinante;2715624]Thanks Ann!

Let me play it back a sec to see if you can’t help me zoom in on the answer.
Everything you mentioned is great advice, my challenge is in determining when and how often to tack under a given condition in order to minimize the amount of time spent getting from point A to point B.

So for example, let’s say I’m taking this particular piece of advice:



How long do I stay on that heading before tacking again? That depends on whether your goal is the quickest way to the waypoint, or to have more of the sailing period be more comfortable.
That is, if I have enough sea room, do I stay on that tack until I reach a point that the reciprocal heading will take me to my final waypoint? Only if nothing changes.

In my particular example, if I did the math correctly, assuming a 35° angle to the wind, I would be almost 15nm east of my desired end point before tacking onto the reciprocal track to get to my final destination. [I think the most efficient way to get there is to short tack along the rhumb line, but only is nothing changes.

The math seems to indicate that’s the way to go... that is, since the distance covered is the same regardless of how many tacks I make at a given angle and you invariably lose speed while tacking, then the fewer tacks the better. Actually, the better you tack, the less speed you lose.

It’s just hard wrapping my head around the idea that sailing that far off my intended course yields the fastest time from point A to point B. That's good, because I don't think it would. It is because the real world is different from the ideal world of maths.



Am I correct in my understanding? Honestly, I don't know, I am very poor at math! Worse, I don't believe in the ideal world of maths, so I'll apologize, but I cannot tell you if your understanding is correct. Sorry.

Thanks again
Carlos[/QUOTE]

Others have mentioned motorsailing, you can do that, too, if you want. We prefer to run the motor when we need it, and do not perceive that going to windward is usually one of those times. Ymmv.

I really think you need also to make it easier on the boat, they last longer and have less breakage when you do not thrash them.

Ann

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by SVRocinante

In my particular example, if I did the math correctly, assuming a 35° angle to the wind, I would be almost 15nm east of my desired end point before tacking onto the reciprocal track to get to my final destination.



The math seems to indicate that’s the way to go... that is, since the distance covered is the same regardless of how many tacks I make at a given angle and you invariably lose speed while tacking, then the fewer tacks the better.



It’s just hard wrapping my head around the idea that sailing that far off my intended course yields the fastest time from point A to point B.

As others have noted if the wind direction is perfectly constant it makes absolutely no difference whether you do the trip in two tacks or twenty other than the incremental loss of each tack.

I would not factor time/distance lost with each tack into your decision making. Overall, in the real world, you’ll gain more by monitoring the wind direction and tacking when appropriate.

I think the triangle model with the apex being your destination is a good simple one to follow. It will keep you from getting caught out to one side and unable to lay to your final mark.

Is your 5.5 knot figure your SOG or VMG? If the former you’re going to need more than 8 hours...

Another input to consider is land effect for the wind and potentially a calmer sea state closer to the coast. That is something I would explore early in the trip, taking a longer tack west to see if conditions are more favorable closer in.

[thomm225]

Being that close to land, usually the wind will be a bit different in the morning than in the afternoon.

I usually try and sail to the side that will give me the most benefit for the longest part of the day then tack on that wind

In other words, pay your dues early on the bad (but shorter) tack to take advantage of the good, longer tack later, but you will need to know the area and it's winds to do this correctly.

Or you can trust/bet on the forecast as to where the wind will be in the afternoon

[Dave_S]

I asked a similar question here http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...on-202698.html

Still very much a newbie but this my guide based on working through everyone's answers. Thanks again :-)

Provided my objective is to arrive as early as possible.

The cone works if
Any of those (wind, tide, current direction) make one heading provide a better VMG. To benefit from the cone then that is you first tack. Because your cone is wider at the start point you will travel more on the good tack.

How wide do you make your cone.... Different for everyone I suppose is the crappy answer Alan Almighty suggested 10* is steady, 20* in changing and 30* in rough.



If you only do one tack you will loose if the something changes for or against you. Sounds wrong but it's right. If you are way out and about to tack, you have been running at negative VMG ever since you crossed the XX* line (XX* it's more about your COG angle) If the wind changes in your favour you have wasted that time going backwards, if it changes in your favour it also means you didn't need to be out that far to set course directly to destination.

[SVRocinante]

Excellent!
Thanks again for all the info people - greatly appreciated!

As I mentioned in my original post:

Originally Posted by SVRocinante

... In essense, ignoring acting on a wind shift, I stay on a tack until “I think I’m going too far away from my route line” - not exactly an analytical or tactical approach!

So, I’d say that I’ve been more or less intuitively following the “cone” methodology, keeping each of my tacks shorter as I get closer to my end point.

Also lots of great reasons for not taking the “one tack and done” approach. While mathematically it made sense, I can see why I avoided doing it.

Again, thanks for all the input!

[billknny]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Hoist the iron jib and motor sail when able to do so.

That is certainly one answer, especially for boats that either struggle with windward performance, or are very uncomfortable sailing close hauled, or for crew who have never really learned how to make their boats go upwind.

I know many people who have never really sailed close hauled, they just motor. We really prefer sailing, even if it takes longer. If we wanted to motor we would have bought a trawler. Nothing wrong with that, it's just not our style.

I confess the very concept of "motor sailing" rather escapes me. If there is enough wind to make it worth putting the sails up, then just sail.

[Cheechako]

The only advantage I can think of (other than currents, sea state etc) is to take the favorable tack every opportunity, or lifts. You're not doing much else anyway right?
-Sometimes though, sea state does not coincide with wind direction. Other factors, including wind 50 miles away, land, may make one tack terrible with seas slowing the boat and the other better.
-Too much short tacking may slow the boat as it slows down when you tack.
-Too much long tacking may get you committed to sailing further if the wind shifts a bit.

[sailcrazy]

Depends on how much of a "purist" you want to be. We are cruisers, and going to wind is just not that much fun! Every season we leave our marina in Puerto Rico, and head towards the BVI/USVI.....40+ nm straight east into the trades (which are almost always easterly!) IF we can sail it....we do, but if the wind is within 30-35 degrees of our course...it's Iron Wind time! Taking the seas head on is better than taking them at 40 degrees off the bow, the shortest distance is a straight line, and we make better SOG motoring than tacking back and forth; and, we want to arrrive in daylight! It's not that we can't slog on, but we much prefer to get through the slogging as quickly as we can.

[akprb]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Hoist the iron jib and motor sail when able to do so.

Man, you and I are cut of the same cloth!

That was my first thought ;-)

[TrentePieds]

Yest, Amnesia touches on it and so does Suijin and BillKnny. Here is the practicalities of it:

Plot your rhumb line - what you call your "route line" on your chart. Now lay off two lines emanating from your destination one on each side of your rhumb line and disposed to it 20º. These two lines will be a "funnel" down which you want to go. Regardless of what your ACTUAL "course made good" is as you sail along, when you are positioned on either one of these lines you tack and sail "down the funnel" till you get to the other line.

As someone said, the DISTANCE sailed (over the ground) is not affect by how many tacks you make. However, the procedure puts you in a better strategic position to take advantage of wind shifts than are people who don't follow this procedure. In consequence you will gain your destination quicker than they do .

TP

[kish]

Originally Posted by Amnesia II

Harking back to Eric Hiscocks books, he explained how it was beneficial to reduce tacking legs to your destination inside a imaginary triangle, the apex being your desired destination. The theory was that on continuing long tacks, if the wind changed against you, you were no further along. Apologies if this has already been covered.

A summay of Hiscocks advice is well known to those who have raced offshore, and have a simple maxim,
which is to favour the upwind leg that is closer to the direction of the forecasted wind shift
while remaining within the rhumb lines.
Suppose we are going beating to a mark, that is directly upwind and we can hold a course of 45 degrees true on either side of the wind direction;
For example if the wind direction is 270 degrees and we can sail within minus or plus 45 degrees to the W [270] wind, our course will be 270+45 = 315 deg or NW, while on the other tack it will be 270-45 = 225 deg or SW

More succinctly, if the wind is West, we can sail efficiently either SW or NW. if we assume no wave action affecting one or the other tack,

If the wind is forecast to veer toward North, then the Port tack will place us closer to the mark after the shift and we can sail freer to there.
If the wind is forecasted to back toward the South then the SW, Starboard tack will place us closer to the mark after the shift and allow easing sheets, freer, to mark.

[hamburking]

You always want to be getting CLOSER to your destination. If you follow a tack too long, you will be getting farther away. So start off with big tacks, and then the tacks should get shorter as you proceed, all else being equal. A simple, handheld GPS is an excellent tool to help with this, without having to stare at a chart or do any math. Use the velocity made good (VMG) function.

[elandra65]

I think you are overthinking it and trying to oversimplify at the same time. The length of tack makes no difference to the overall distance sailed assuming conditions are constant which they rarely are. Much good advice given so far about the realities. The actual time spent tacking in your scenario is almost irrevelant. I sometimes use velocity made good "vmg" to the waypoint (usually can be selected on the chart plotter but not a default) if it is far away to help decide the better tack. This will tell you the real speed over ground to the waypoint and takes into account currents etc etc.

I really think all cruisers would benefit hugely from at least a season racing dinghys and a good size yacht. Even if you are not interested in racing a well trimmed, correctly canvassed and intelligently sailed sailboat is much more comfortable, safer and faster.

Andrew