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Old 26-04-2020, 14:17   #16
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

No power for appliances.
Inability to make port or destination on time. Forget weekend sailing if you have to work Monday.
Boredom. Sitting thrashing the mainsail back and forth with little or no wind.
The Pardey's secretly carried a little outboard they sometimes used IIRC.
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Old 26-04-2020, 14:30   #17
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

Slocum got a tow every chance he could and I don't blame him. I've heard the pardeys got many a tow and simply didn't write about because it doesn't look good in their books.

Anchorages are as crowded as ever and going engineless is difficult but possible. Having an engineless boat means you aren't going to insure it. What happens when your boat damages another? Can you afford that?
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Old 26-04-2020, 15:02   #18
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

In a sail boat the engine is also part of your safety gear. In the old days, many sailing ships were lost because they didn't have a backup mode of movement. I've been in many places where currents we at times faster than a sailboat goes. And sometimes the current is taking you places where you don't want to go. How long do your batteries last?
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Old 26-04-2020, 15:40   #19
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

We dont use our engine for charging at all, we are 100% solar- almost a year straight now. We enjoy constant refrigeration, have 5 fans on board, decent lighting, top of the line stereo, pressurized salt water, VHF and Ipads for navigation: but thats it. For many folks these choices are a result of personal style. We have 300W of high quality panels.

BUT.. I wouldnt sail without an engine today. Harbors are busier than ever, entrances are small and full of jogs, good sailing wind for your crossing might be wind that makes it impossible to enter the pass or harbor your headed to. If you run aground, it becomes a dinghy/kedge game EVERY TIME without one.

The fact of the matter is: modern diesels are very reliable when properly used/maintained. They are also very efficient, our 17,000# boat moves at 5.5-6.5kn on 1/5 gallon an hour. The purchase price is hard to swallow on a budget, but its a MAJOR convenience and its a big piece of safety for tight space navigation. Based on our experience's of the East Coast USA/Bahamas, western Caribbean/Central America there are many awesome places you simply cannot go without one.

I used to sail my 2.5 ton C&C 27 in and out of its slip and around the inner harbor all the time, in a huge variety of conditions- but Im not going to sail our 8.5 ton full keel cutter that way- its not fair to those around me as my mistake could cost me and more importantly others a lot of time/money/stress.

We sail every inch we can and have logged a lot of hours optimizing the boat to do so, but an engine is a great piece of gear and an absolute necessity for all but the most dedicated purists, people with infinite patients and a mind that thinks 5 moves ahead at all times.

IMHO If your new to sailing: you absolutely have to have some sort of engine. Or buy a dinghy you can row.
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Old 26-04-2020, 16:29   #20
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

More for interest than downright advice, but I'd suggest a visit to Project Gutenberg to download Captain Cook's voyage of discovery log. This journal keeps an accurate account of the travels of the Endeavour and of relevance to this post is the references to daily distance traveled by the ship and sheer amount of times the vessel nearly came to grief or was trapped for sometimes weeks awaiting wind changes. The ship would occasionally do negative daily miles when tide and wind conspired against the direction of travel and the strategy used when possible was to anchor in the middle of the ocean in order to "gain" ground. Essentially, if you can't make the boat drive with power all you can do when the SHTF is throw out the anchor. A good anchor and lots of rode is a must!



A smaller, modern vessel would obviously be much better to handle sans engine, but the basic limitations would still apply.
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Old 26-04-2020, 16:32   #21
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
No power for appliances.
Inability to make port or destination on time. Forget weekend sailing if you have to work Monday.
Boredom. Sitting thrashing the mainsail back and forth with little or no wind.
The Pardey's secretly carried a little outboard they sometimes used IIRC.
Apparently if you don't have an engine you are not allowed to have solar panels or batteries. Learn something new every day.
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Old 26-04-2020, 16:40   #22
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet View Post
More for interest than downright advice, but I'd suggest a visit to Project Gutenberg to download Captain Cook's voyage of discovery log. This journal keeps an accurate account of the travels of the Endeavour and of relevance to this post is the references to daily distance traveled by the ship and sheer amount of times the vessel nearly came to grief or was trapped for sometimes weeks awaiting wind changes. The ship would occasionally do negative daily miles when tide and wind conspired against the direction of travel and the strategy used when possible was to anchor in the middle of the ocean in order to "gain" ground. Essentially, if you can't make the boat drive with power all you can do when the SHTF is throw out the anchor. A good anchor and lots of rode is a must!



A smaller, modern vessel would obviously be much better to handle sans engine, but the basic limitations would still apply.
Cook's circumstances are not the same as modern day. The 3 biggest differences are:
A. Boats are much more weatherly now than they were.
B. There was no knowledge of seasonal wind and current changes during Cook's voyages. He had to take the climate as it came and could not time his voyages to take advantage of the seasonal winds and currents and periodically had to sail against them.
C. He didn't have maps, the western world did not know what was there. This had an affect on how fast he was will to proceed at night.
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Old 26-04-2020, 17:04   #23
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
Cook's circumstances are not the same as modern day. The 3 biggest differences are:

A. Boats are much more weatherly now than they were.

B. There was no knowledge of seasonal wind and current changes during Cook's voyages. He had to take the climate as it came and could not time his voyages to take advantage of the seasonal winds and currents and periodically had to sail against them.

C. He didn't have maps, the western world did not know what was there. This had an affect on how fast he was will to proceed at night.
B) and C) not quite so. They knew a lot more about the "unknown" at the time then perhaps some modern interpretations of history suggest.

Nevertheless, as someone who has been involuntarily engineless for far too long now, I have studied the ways of the tide and wind with a semi serious eye at going the engineless route for distant travels but the limitations are just too great, imo.
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Old 26-04-2020, 17:37   #24
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

Sailing into the slip can be tricky. I am in Midland, Tx for the past ten years and there is no water here, semi-desert and all. They do have calf-ropers and it would be a great advantage to be able to rope a dock cleat with the boat cleat rope, thereby stopping the boat in time. One thing to consider about it is that ropers use rope that has been coated in wax to make it stiff enough to hold a hoop. If you can throw it ten feet and reliably capture a cleat it would impress most sailboat sailers. These ropes can be ordered on line if you look for it.
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Old 26-04-2020, 23:13   #25
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

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Originally Posted by flybynight View Post
Another question from the wannabe sailor!
What are the most serious disadvantages (or even dangers) of sailing the boat without engine? Besides getting out of the port, that is...
Thanks very much!
Not really dangerous once you know your boat and it is nimble enough to handle tight spaces. Boats with spade or skeg hung rudders can do well. But my boat has a long keel and it can be done. I knew a guy who used to sail his Valiant 40 into Santa Barbara harbor here in California. That was a tight fit and pretty gutsy, but he knew his boat. The trick comes in anchoring in a small or populated anchorage. It takes more planning and preparation, having everything ready and knowing your boat and conditions well enough that you can stop on the spot you pick, ready to drop the anchor, and ready with a plan to bail out if it doesn't go right. With a smaller boat, say 30' and under, it can be very manageable after a good deal of practice, or larger if the design is still responsive in light airs. Though with lots of practice and an experienced crew larger boats can handle it. (You might read Joseph Conrad's "Secret Sharer" for a trick in sailing a much larger sailboat in a tight spot.) As far as the harbor goes, they still let us sail in our harbor here and once I added oars to my smaller 29', low freeboard boat, getting into any slip is almost sinfully easy now.
But the other, far more important thing I'd seriously consider if you are going engineless is what happens in case of a man overboard. This definitely takes considerable thought and planning and practice. It is something you should practice often with a man overboard pole included I'd say. If you are the only one left on the boat you'll need to practice singlehanding the rescue, AND keeping your MOB in sight (MUCH easier with the MOB pole of course.) And if you are running on a windy day it will take you a good deal of time to round up and tack back up, if the boat can! What may seem like a fun day running downwind in 20 or 25 knots can easily become a nightmare if you have to turn around and tack back up to someone. You soon realize the value of everyone wearing a harness, even when it is not that windy!
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Old 26-04-2020, 23:23   #26
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ngineless.html
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Old 26-04-2020, 23:29   #27
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

Very weird Don, that link takes me to a Spectra Water maker Thread.
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Old 26-04-2020, 23:32   #28
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

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Very weird Don, that link takes me to a Spectra Water maker Thread.
takes me to the engineless group page
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Old 27-04-2020, 10:32   #29
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

I tried it again from app still going to Spectra.
Tried it from webtop and went to engineless. Interesting.
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Old 27-04-2020, 11:07   #30
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Re: Sailboat without engine?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adelie View Post
I tried it again from app still going to Spectra.
Tried it from webtop and went to engineless. Interesting.
Try it from my post
https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ngineless.html
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