Sailboat rescue in rough weather

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by psk125

Sounds like we don't have the full story here.

I think PSK125 is spot on. In particular, I would be interested in knowing who the crew were.

For a while there were a few threads here that asked the question of how large a vessel one could handle by themselves. This is often the same answer for couples. There were some answers of fifty or sixty feet due to automation, power winches, in mast furling, etc. While I don't doubt the ability of an experienced and good (sometimes two different things) sailor to handle a fifty plus foot yacht by themselves, many cannot when the power goes away or the automation stops functioning.

When I first started sailing, I was impressed with the difference in effort required between my Dufour Safari 27, an Ensign 23, and particularly a boat in the mid 30 foot range. As the size goes up, the effort increases exponentially.

If we combine this effort with the fair weather mindset of many, it is not surprising when people can't handle foul weather.

Certainly, we don't know all the details and there may be other problems that are important to getting an answer. For example, if there was a serious leak or hole, and the forecast was for the weather to get much worse, they may have made the correct decision.

Regardless of what happened, I hope they are all right and that they can recover their yacht in reasonably good condition.

On a side note, how do insurance companies treat the abandoning of a yacht when in situations such as this?

[adjo]

As others have already commented we don't know the full story but many sailors have never experienced the relative comfort and restfulness of heaving to in heavy weather. Or even in moderate weather when you need a rest.
I'm always amazed how suddenly everything changes when the headsail is backed and the mainsheet hardened in.

If you haven't experienced it give it a go next time you get caught in a blow (assuming no dangers close to leeward!). Arrange the sails so your boat is making next to no headway but is heeling over so far that it is almost sliding sideways when pushed by wave action.

I've never tried it in a multihull but imagine it is less comfortable.

[ArmyDaveNY]

Originally Posted by adjo

As others have already commented we don't know the full story but many sailors have never experienced the relative comfort and restfulness of heaving to in heavy weather. Or even in moderate weather when you need a rest.
I'm always amazed how suddenly everything changes when the headsail is backed and the mainsheet hardened in.

If you haven't experienced it give it a go next time you get caught in a blow (assuming no dangers close to leeward!). Arrange the sails so your boat is making next to no headway but is heeling over so far that it is almost sliding sideways when pushed by wave action.

I've never tried it in a multihull but imagine it is less comfortable.

I have only done it once in a storm but it was truly amazing the difference. I was actually sitting in the cockpit with my rum and coke, relaxing, and watching in awe as mother nature threw a tantrum. After an hour or so of that, I made dinner and came back out again to watch, then went to sleep. The difference was most impressive.

[arsenelupiga]

my estimate: sea is filling up with incompetent sailors, beneficiaries of money printing and corona/riots escapees. one needs to be very careful when around these 'newbies'. Few will make it to adulthood.

[hzcruiser]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

Didn't have any (much) sails up so why would they need powered winches? Bit of a stretch suggesting that was the problem.

True.


It would be good to get some more info on what happened and why.


There is a YT channel for Bali Hai, but they don't have any videos or other info up...



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdG...No-KA/featured



Then there is a blog, but it's about a sloop:


https://saltytalesfrombalihai.com/20...l-versus-slow/


Either way, a boat that size should have more than just an EPIRB, maybe a drogue or sea anchor?



The picture shows a nice ketch with in-mast fully furled head and mizzen sail and it doesn't seem as if they were about to sink given the clearly visible waterline.


Being 170 nm offshore should give them enough room to sit out the bad weather.

[B23iL23]

There are a couple of boats with that name. This one is an Amel SM 53 ketch. You are correct that the sails are furled except the genoa which looks about 50%. Boat is floating on her lines so doesn't look like it's taken water.

Sometimes crew just have enough, are tired, cold and just want off. Only a skipper and crew can judge their skills and what they are able to endure and make the call.

Originally Posted by hzcruiser

True.


It would be good to get some more info on what happened and why.


There is a YT channel for Bali Hai, but they don't have any videos or other info up...



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdG...No-KA/featured



Then there is a blog, but it's about a sloop:


https://saltytalesfrombalihai.com/20...l-versus-slow/


Either way, a boat that size should have more than just an EPIRB, maybe a drogue or sea anchor?



The picture shows a nice ketch with in-mast fully furled head and mizzen sail and it doesn't seem as if they were about to sink given the clearly visible waterline.


Being 170 nm offshore should give them enough room to sit out the bad weather.

[Artey]

Originally Posted by B23iL23

There are a couple of boats with that name. This one is an Amel SM 53 ketch.

Certainly is a shame to lose such a capable boat though. Glad the crew are safe.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by tenchiki

The story does leave out a lot of detail. One possible scenario: a couple on a 52ft boat could be relying on powered winches to manage it. If the engine gets disabled, once the batteries run down, no power means no managing the boat.

Normally, boats that rely on electric or hydraulic winches do NOT rely on the engine for power. A genset is used (in most cases) (to charge the batteries).


Very many boats today carry also solar and windmills as extras.



Also - very many powered winches have manual back-up. This is hard work, but is doable.


Also, electric drives (winches and hydraulic powerpacks) do not use a lot of power, so you would have to be without genset and engine for quite some time before forced to furl manually.


So engine failure should not stop one from sailing A to B without any hiccups.



b.

[barnakiel]

Boat size is not a limitation. This specific boat is actually not very big. And very very well designed for being handled by small crew.



What got them was either lack of sailing skills or else a critical technical failure they could not handle.


Let alone just getting frightened by big waves (but this would go under 'lack of sailing skills').


Perhaps we will get further info in a day or two.


If they left the AIS on and if the boat nears the shore it may perhaps be recovered.



b.

[psk125]

On another site, a poster says he called the coast guard station involved and learned that the rescued crew was a couple in their 60's. A salvage operation is underway. The EPIRB is apparently still transmitting, so they should be able to find the boat and bring it back if the weather cooperates. Is abandoning and then recovering a boat cheaper than a divorce?

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by psk125

On another site, a poster says he called the coast guard station involved and learned that the rescued crew was a couple in their 60's. A salvage operation is underway. The EPIRB is apparently still transmitting, so they should be able to find the boat and bring it back if the weather cooperates. Is abandoning and then recovering a boat cheaper than a divorce?

Interesting. So it's likely that there was nothing significantly wrong with the boat except for the disabled engine. I suspect some health issue leading to their call for help, I don't think people would call CG just to pick them up because they got tired, the boat certainly seems capable of sailing closer to the coast where a tow could then be requested.

Looking at the posted video it seems conditions were not that great but isn't this what offshore sailing is like? Wouldn't they have been prepared for it?

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by psk125

Is abandoning and then recovering a boat cheaper than a divorce?

Good one, psk!

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Knotical

Looking at the posted video it seems conditions were not that great but isn't this what offshore sailing is like? Wouldn't they have been prepared for it?

No, of course not.

I'm sorry to sound so cynical, but they've been watching S/V Delos, bought an Amel 53 just like S/V Delos and have assumed that all will be sweetness and light.

ArmyDaveNY, Adjo and... was it Knotical were right. Heaving-to, throwing some warps off the stern and getting some recoup was in order.

I'm very, very, sorry for them, but this is why I'm always going on about boats that are too big for newbies.

Alright, I'll shut up now.
LittleWing77

[Yihang]

These Amels have electric in mast mains and electric furling headsails. With electric winches you literally could sail it with one finger. All the furlers can be furled manually with a winch. Really nice boats. They were designed for couples to sail around the world, which basically means single handed. The ketch rig means the all the sails are relatively small compared to a sloop. Can't think of anything more seaworthy than the old amels. Not to mention all the water tight compartments, probably the only production boat with them. Literally unsinkable. The propellers are mounted on the keel so totally bullet proof..........amazing boat

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Yihang

Can't think of anything more seaworthy than the old amels. Not to mention all the water tight compartments, probably the only production boat with them. Literally unsinkable. The propellers are mounted on the keel so totally bullet proof..........amazing boat

And still, they called the Coast Guard (endangering Coast Guard crew as well) to be taken off a boat that is still floating and now a danger to surface navigation.

Regardless that the boat "could be sailed with one finger" - they didn't.

Or couldn't.

If the boat wasn't sinking around them, this was extraordinarily poor seamanship, extraordinarily poor prep, as itemized in barnickel's couple of posts above.

Keep an eye out for the boat's salvage and soon-to-be sale on Yachtworld...

I am sorry for them, as I am for all people who have been fooled, or allowed themselves to be fooled by how easy it all looks on YouTube - but I am also furious. These stories will only increase in number (remember the Formosa or Irwin 47' that was beached in Florida a couple of months ago.)

<Sigh>
LittleWing77