Rigging an asymmetrical spinnaker

[jalmberg]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

Jalmberg,
If your foredeck is as complicate as you avatar indicates you may want to bag the kite and re run the sheet. Our deck has four stay, cutter stay lower stay. Pulling a spin set and spinnaker through is a likely tangle. Taking it around the bow might twist the retriever line in the sock. For running way off we use a pole and rig it traditionally.

Run your sheet to make the sail fly correctly. This is probably not to the stern especially on a Ketch. Ours sheets about mid ship. The code zero below sheets and flies much like an AS.

Yes, we have a jib on roller furler, and extra stay for hank-on jib, plus staysail, etc.



I've only played with it once, but the optimum sheeting angle is definitely close to midships.



Thanks for your insights!

[rbrake]

Wether you want to run one sheet or two depends on how you sail the boat. Are you making many miles on one tack and are willing to douse the chute and bring the sheet to the new side before re-setting, the simplest way? Or are you jibing frequently? If the later, it is much easier to gybe the chute than tack it through the very narrow slot in front of the headstay. Tack or gybe you will have to deal with the main and the lazy sheet at essentially the same time. Crew and practice or single handed and lot's of practice is what you will need.

[allene222]

My asymmetric was new at the beginning of our racing season. We did 17 races and used it on all but one race. We rig outside. Tried inside once and ripped it. $50 repair and good as new. We ran over the lazy sheet I think four times even with crew assigned to keep it out of the water. Largest problem was rotating crew and no practice days. Running over the sheet is called flossing the keel. On the last race we ran wing on wing jibing the main and keeping the Spinnaker on the same side. I think that will be our preferred method but we sail in SF Bay so not sure I would do that offshore as it really is ddw.

As others have said, each sheet needs to be at least twice the length assuming it is run to the stern as is normal.

There is an excellent video on YouTube on jibing a Spinnaker https://youtu.be/uZIR24FW1BA

Also, if you do jibe and need to take it down on the opposite side to where you raised it, you need to take the control lines around the forestay. That may be difficult on your boat with that bowsprit and that may be another reason for only one sheet. By that I mean it might just be near impossible to do anything other than stuff it, rerig, and raise it on he new tack.

[PaintedKite]

Hi, John! Great to bump into you here. So nice spending time with H & you in Solomon's earlier this year.

We've been experimenting with our gennaker, too. Single best guide I've found is this video from North Sails:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lp4Z...41taOFlgtin0AQ

Yes, it's a bit strange at first picturing everything "on the outside", but it all becomes obvious after you've done it once or twice. Just one additional tip: after running the sheets through the cockpit blocks, tie stopper knots!

With just 2 of us onboard, when gybing, we use the autopilot to steer the stern through the wind, one of us on the mainsheet (doing better than the folks in the video, for sure), and one on the gennaker sheets.

Really, though, you don't need the autopilot. You can take things in sequence:
center the boom first, then put the rudder over, then gybe the gennaker. A low rudder angle will give you time to sheet the gennaker on the new side before completing the turn. Note that any drop in boat speed (and the accompanying increase in apparent wind) actually helps the gennaker get 'round. Just make sure the lazy sheet is hooked on that "thumb" before starting the gybe. See you out there...

[SV Venture]

Originally Posted by FabioC

The asymmetric with the sock is one of my favorite topics...

The most likely reason why the PO only used one sheet is that an asymmetric with the sock is almost impossible to jibe while flying it (also, the risk of getting the sock stuck and having to go up the mast to free it is too high to justify).

So, as others have said, with a sock, most people do not jibe with the spinnaker flying. Those who do, jibe the spinnaker by lowering the sock and then passing the whole thing to the new side and then taking the sock up again.

If you do not plan to jibe the spinnaker at all, using one sheet is a reasonable option in the name of simplicity, just rig it on the side you plan to fly the spinnaker.

Even if you jibe the spinnaker with the sock, since you are lowering down the sock anyway on the jibe, if you pass the lazy sheet "outside" (like in an outside jibe), as it is the case in many boats, it makes sense to only have one sheet attached to the clew at all times, so you do not have to bother making sure that the lazy sheet has some tension and does not fall in the water (and gets stuck in the keel and you have to clean up the whole mess...). You can simply attach the lazy sheet to the clew as you pull the sock down (you will have full control of the clew at that point), detach the old sheet, pass the sock around using the new sheet, take up the sock and you are flying on the other side without worries.

Fabio C: When you say lower the sock and pass it around, do you mean leave the spinnaker up, inside the lowered sock, and move the sock outside of and around the forestay - like an outside jibe? Or do you lower the sock, drop the halyard and detach it, then move the halyard around the outside of the forestay, re-attach and then raise the whole sail again? I'm ready to fly my asymmetric for the first time and don't want to do an outside jibe with the sock getting stuck, as you and others have warned. I don't want to have to drop the whole thing to the deck, but it seems to me that it would be difficult to move the spinnaker inside the lowered sock around the outside of my 45 foot forestay.

[FabioC]

Originally Posted by SV Venture

Fabio C: When you say lower the sock and pass it around, do you mean leave the spinnaker up, inside the lowered sock, and move the sock outside of and around the forestay - like an outside jibe? Or do you lower the sock, drop the halyard and detach it, then move the halyard around the outside of the forestay, re-attach and then raise the whole sail again? I'm ready to fly my asymmetric for the first time and don't want to do an outside jibe with the sock getting stuck, as you and others have warned. I don't want to have to drop the whole thing to the deck, but it seems to me that it would be difficult to move the spinnaker inside the lowered sock around the outside of my 45 foot forestay.

i have seen it done (and I have done it myself) either way.

If you lower the sock but leave the spinnaker up, you have to pass the sock around the forestay. It is not that difficult if the person on the bow times it right (the wind will tend to move the sock away and in front of the forestay) and the person at the helm comes up on the new tack slowly enough and only after the sock has passed on the new side. If you do this, take the opportunity to pass the control line to the new side as well
The disadvantage of this is that you need a crew on the bow working to pass the sock, which in high wind you may prefer not to have.

If you lower the sock AND you lower the entire thing inside it, you have to detach and reattach the lines. I have two spin halyard, one on each side, so the bow person simply switches them (many boats have two spin halyard, they are worth to have for many reasons); for the sheet, if we know in advance that we are going to jibe "headless" this way, we actually rig the sheet inside the forestay (just make sure that the lazy sheet is always "lazy", with ample slack), so you do not need to touch it.
What you need to do is to pass the tack line to the new side before hosting. For this, you have to send a crew to the bow, but the operation is easier than passing the whole sock as in the case above. You need to ease the tack line a couple of feet, pass it, and re-trim the tack line, then hoist.
On my boat, I have two tack lines, one on each side (for other reasons, to allow to switch from asym to Code 0 without going headless, but they are very useful for this situation as well, since the bow person simply has to switch the tack lines. All can be done at the mast, with increased safety of not having a crew on the bow.

In general, on our boat, when shorthanded, we use all techniques depending on the conditions. With winds up to 12 knots of so, we jibe with the spinnaker flying, with winds up to 20 knots, we jibe with the spinnaker in the sock while hoisted, with winds above 20 knots or with waves, we jibe headless, take down and hoist on the other side. The choice may also depend on other factors; for example, in traffic (like in an around-the-buoy race), we may play it conservatively, since when shorthanded recovering from troubles with other boats right next to you is always tricky.

[FabioC]

Originally Posted by allene222

There is an excellent video on YouTube on jibing a Spinnaker https://youtu.be/uZIR24FW1BA

Yes, excellent video, but two things make it not fully applicable to "normal" double-handed boats in the 40-foot range.

1. In the video, they have a free winch for the new spin sheet. Most cruising boats have to share the winch for the new sheet with the mainsheet. Can be done, but requires a little practice for proper timing (the mainsheet also has to be switched to the winch used by the old spin sheet).

2. With a sock, you really need a crew at the mast to watch that the sock does not get tangled on the forestay; you cannot head up on the new tack until you are sure of that. This means that the crew is not in the cockpit pulling the new sheet around. The person at the helm has to do it, while continuing to steer accurately. The person at the helm has to release the old sheet, pull on the new sheet to pass the spinnaker around, and release the main. This is a lot to do with accuracy. The biggest challenge is to release gently and keep the spinnaker flying as you jibe and pull it around.
Overall, doable, but it takes practice to master it.

One thing that helps "normal" short-handed crews is NOT to trim the tack line when you go into the jibe (contrary to what they recommend in the video, they are pros). The tack line is normally eased a couple of feet if you are going downwind, so not having to trim it is one less thing to do. More importantly, leaving the tack line eased brings the spinnaker more in front and on the windward side (before the jibe) and thus makes it more forgiving if it collapses at some point during the jibe.

[SV Venture]

Thanks Fabio - great explanation. I'll give it a try pulling the sock around the forestay at the dock and see how it goes. Probably a good idea to practice both ways - "headless" and "Spinnaker in a sock" jibe. I think I'll stay away from jibing with the spinnaker flying for now.

[FabioC]

Originally Posted by SV Venture

Thanks Fabio - great explanation. I'll give it a try pulling the sock around the forestay at the dock and see how it goes. Probably a good idea to practice both ways - "headless" and "Spinnaker in a sock" jibe. I think I'll stay away from jibing with the spinnaker flying for now.

Always a good idea to practice at the dock first...
Of course, at the dock, make sure that the wind is coming from the stern. What makes it fairly easy to get the sock around the forestay in an actual jibe is that you are going downwind and the wind is helping you by pushing the sock in front of the forestay... unless the wind is helping, the sock becomes like an overcooked noodle that is hard to control...

[nuku34]

To the OP: My ex-wife and I cruised for 14 years on our Joshua "Sundowner". It was one of only 5 with an aft cockpit. There's a photo of her on my "profile" page cruising in Fiji in the 1990's. We flew a big symmetrical spinnaker with pole. No sock, just hauled it in behind the main. Because of the aft cockpit and very short doghouse, Sundowner had a huge flush deck behind the mainmast which made it easy to dowse the kite. We had double poles on tracks on the mainmast so our jibes were done with double poles. Sundower was setup for high latitudes, had been to Antarctica and through the Magellan Straits before we had her. We went through a full-on tropical cyclone in the Coral Sea; great boat when the sh_t hits the fan!

We also used a mizzen staysail a lot. That is a great sail. Super easy to set with the tack on the windward rail just aft of the mainmast and sheeted to the end of the mizzen boom. One person could set it and drop it. Cheers,
Sandy