Our first boat please provide input.

[boatman61]

Lots of judgements on photo's.. Go have a look.
All boats have flat surfaces and on monos you keep your cups in your hand or they fly everywhere when sailing.
Its a mono not a cat.
Go on board and check out the criticisms above.. your the one who's buying a boat to potentially live on.. Not the folk sitting at a screen saying what they Think..
Remember.. KISS is the golden rule to economical sailing and I've a lifetime of that..
What I would be happy on 99% here would not step aboard..

[MJH]

Originally Posted by NickWallace

My wife and I are looking at purchasing our first boat in the Tampa area. Our plan is to live aboard in a marina at first, and then eventually sail internationally. We are novice sailors and will be taking lessons in the years to come before attempting a long voyage. The link below is to the boat we are looking at, my main concern is what is the minimum crew it would require? https://www.boattrader.com/listing/1...-44-103437004/ It is a 1985 Custom Schooner 44 and appears to be quite manual, it will be only my wife and I as crew, and I want to make sure that we are not biting off more than we can chew. Also what are your thoughts on the boat in general as in its live aboard ability as well as ocean crossing capability? The only other boat we are considering at this point is this 1979 Morgan 382, https://www.boattrader.com/listing/1...382-103463569/ if you have the time to check this one out as well I would like to ask for your thoughts as well as how the two boats compare. Thank you for your time.

There is not enough information provided to make an informed decision.

The schooner looks to me like a coastal cruiser as I don't see a lot of gear used offshore and the interior sleeping accommodations are very poor. I'm not fond of aluminum boats and "custom" means you have a "One Off" with no manufacturer or owners group to go to for support. I also question the advertised "length" as 44'...why didn't they say LOA (length overall) or LOD (length on Deck). The boat has a long bowsprit and they may have counted that...I've seen this done before. So I vote no, particularly since its your first boat.

I'm familiar with the Morgan 382, a reasonable boat design but there are better choices for offshore passage-making. It could make a good boat for you to learn sailing, boat ownership skills/truths, and trade up from when the time comes. The engine looks tired. As a new boater you have a lot to learn so I would certainly get the best surveyor possible to check out the entire boat/hull/rigging/sails.

Good Luck.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Lots of judgements on photo's.. Go have a look.
All boats have flat surfaces and on monos you keep your cups in your hand or they fly everywhere when sailing.
Its a mono not a cat.
Go on board and check out the criticisms above.. your the one who's buying a boat to potentially live on.. Not the folk sitting at a screen saying what they Think..
Remember.. KISS is the golden rule to economical sailing and I've a lifetime of that..
What I would be happy on 99% here would not step aboard..

I agree. The OP does not note his age or physical condition. He also does not state his ability or willingness to perform repairs or maintenance. Lots of judgements being made without that information. As far as experience, hire a captain to teach you the basics and off you go. Not to say there isn’t a lot to learn, but if I’m retired what else are you going to do.

[gulfcoastsailor]

IMO, You are biting off more than you can chew. Size down and learn.

[grantmc]

To the OP; I very much enjoyed looking at the photos of the schooner. Wonderful looking boat, well priced, thank you very much. Tempted to jump on a big budgie and buy her myself. Ticked many boxes for me, especially aluminium build. Posters are of course correct about size vs cost, continuous maintenance, and certainly true that marinas charge by size. Not sure about the Morgan; looked kind of grubby to me. Bad photos don't help.

Irrespective, whether either of these two vessels is right for you, I've no idea. But there was one point I picked up in your original post and that was that you stated two quite different objectives, first to live for presumably some number of years, and second to sail internationally. That says to me two boats minimum. So ignore the second objective as it's in the future, and assume for that, when you're ready, experienced and competent then you'll be buying something to sail oceans. And the type of yacht and features needed will depend much upon where you intend to sail her. Family holidays to say Cuba have very different needs than expedition sailing to Patagonia.

In the meantime all you need is something you can live on, with a reasonable degree of comfort, and do occasional day sails and weekend/holiday trips. Also I would recommend to any new sailor to join a local sailing club and do a bit of crewing on as many boats as you can, always with an eye and ear to the different vessels you have the opportunity to sail on. And of course take your own boat out for occasional club events too as there's a great deal to be learnt in competing in round the cans racing in a wide range of weather and conditions. And of course there are courses you can take that will help.

The schooner did though remind me of a boat called the Narwhal that an Aussie couple sailed last year from Canada to Australia. Narwhal is a traditional gaff rigged boat with no mod cons at all. They had many nay sayers on this forum, but they did the trip and had an experience, I was going to say wonderful time, but it wasn't the right word so I'll just stick to 'experience'. Anyways, Simon, the skipper said he wanted an adventure, and so choose a traditional boat that would push him and draw on his abilities. They made a few videos but they weren't in to having a booby and bootie you tube channel with thousands of subscribers sending them money. I would recommend watching this single video where they explain what they wanted to achieve and the eventual demands:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klZmJ6jbWpY

Perhaps you'll find it as interesting as I did. There aren't too many of these honest accounts of sailing across the world's largest ocean from north to south.

OP I don't know you, but I'm recommending this video to you as an example of someone thinking carefully about what he wants to do and then executing the plan. Erin his partner, in reality just went along for the ride. You too need to think carefully about what you want and need in your life and from that choose a boat for the now. Having secondary plans is great but I would expect that will require a different boat. I'm sure you've bought and sold a few cars in your life, in reality boats aren't especially different, just the process can be a little more difficult.

[tilostahl]

This is obviously not want you want to hear, because you've already pre-selected your boat, but I suggest you start out with a small cruiser, say a Pearson 25 or that range, and kick around in that for a few years. You'll learn to sail much better than in a 40' boat, you'll find out what you really want and need in a cruising boat, and you won't be stuck with a white elephant.

[Slainte1]

When I first read your post my heart sank. It was a recipe for a disaster or at least a lot of unhappiness. However the later posts contained a lot of good advice which I hope you will follow. In particular read again the posts by TrentePieds and
woot17 which made so much sense.
You may also wish to consider a catamaran which may ease the transition between land based and a nautical lifestyle
I wish you the best of luck and hope you achieve and enjoy your ambitions.

[Augi]

I am newbie with not much more experience than you.

I think you would be best served to slow down and take baby steps and confirm what kind of sailing you want to do, and confirm what you like in a boat. There are lots of ways to do that discussed many times, in many threads on this forum.

When I say confirm the kind of sailing you want to do and conform what you like in a boat, I mean do a lot of sailing on OPBs (Other People's Boats). It is great you have a dream and an objective I am suggesting a better way to achieve that dream is take baby steps.

If you are attracted to the "less is more" kind of life style of being live-a-board you can downsize, and do "less is more" living ashore while you get enough experience to KNOW what kind of boat you want. Another option is you may be able to rent a boat to live on that already has a slip in a marina, while you learn on smaller boats and Other People's Boats.

Another point that that has frequently been made on this website, is if you have to ask what kind of boat to buy, you are not ready to buy a boat. That is a little harsh, but there is a lot of truth in that. Of course it is perfectly OK to inquire to get feed back and get an over view.

Based on the limited information you provided, if you have to chose between the two, I think the Morgan would be better. I am concerned the custom schooner would be over whelming to figure out how to operate, much harder to maintain and more expensive, and much harder to figure out and know what you are actually getting before you buy it.

My advice is not buy a boat until you have a lot more time on the water sailing.

[SV Sailfish]

Originally Posted by NickWallace

My wife and I are looking at purchasing our first boat in the Tampa area. We are novice sailors.

Nick,

Based on what you said above... neither. Do not buy either boat.

If you really are going to jump into sailing for the first time with absolutely no experience, I say this in the strongest way possible... Only buy a boat that would be easy to resell at a moments notice. One that lots of others, (newbies included) would be looking to buy.

That would be Hunter, Catalina, etc. Not one off things like that schooner. (I sailed a schooner for years and loved it but would not touch that one with a 100 foot pole)

Right now, you are in the "starry eyed dreamer" stage. And that is a good place to be. But you have to think "real world" and here it is...

Thousands and thousands of people who were right where you are now that went ahead and bought a sailboat with dreams of far flung exotic ports are now back home with broken dreams or pending divorce, etc. While their "beautiful dream boat" is rotting in some marina or dry storage waiting for the next dreamer to buy it cheap and rescue the former owner/dreamer from his misery.

OK, here comes my "Dad" voice... Buy a turn-key popular production boat for now. Like a Catalina or Hunter. Learn to sail. See if both of you like it. See if you can handle getting sea sick. Some people cannot. See if you really can live together in a tiny space. Most people cannot.

I know that YouTube makes it look really exciting out here, but just in my area of Mexico, for every newbie that sails down from the Canada/US west coast with the Baja Ha Ha or otherwise, with a dream of "sailing around the world", about 8 out of 10 boats go no further. Their dreams pretty much dead on arrival. No, I am not the voice of doom and gloom. Just a reality check from a long time boat owner and world cruiser that sees way to many dreamers lose their dream, (and their money, marriage, etc.) and go home with their tails tucked in.

Nick, we want you out here with us. But I personally want you to succeed. Do not invest any more $$$ than you can afford to flush down the toilet. Because, down here, we see that happening each and every week. (Don't believe me? Just get on Yachtworld and see how many boats are for sale and sitting in dry storage lonely and neglected)

I applaud your dream but... baby steps buddy. Baby steps.

[Lihuedooley77]

Nick Welcome aboard,

You are getting some very good advice by people who have been there and done what you are thinking of. Read and pay attention. Make notes. Learn.

Where ever we travel , we listen to the experienced locals, sea or land....as we would listen to experienced boat owners and cruisers.

You are now in the learning and dreaming stage, we all were. It is exciting, heart pounding, a little scary, and your patience factor has a short fuse.

One thing that I have learned, and that is older boats , many , are one heck of a problem, big problems and little problems that are going to cost thousands of dollars and expert man hours.

A very important point was mentioned about your own "personal inspection " of the vessel before you purchase. That takes some knowledge, you may have to hire a very experienced ( non warf rat - bourbon boatswain ) to help you with that.

If the boat passes your inspection, then you need an excellent qualified professional survey that covers the entire vessel. If you can find one.

This is not to rain on your dreams, and hopes, but to let you know to be smart and thorough. Make the correct decision for you and your wife .

Pay close attention to woot17 and trentpeids, and the other posters . Good scoops.

And someone mentioned, get your training, be very serious and motivated, and work at it. Then. get some sea time sailing boats thru a sailing club, and get experience on their several different makes of types and rigged vessels.

Very diligently , heed the posted suggestions, and many of those, would be prior to plunking down a load of cash, and the possibility of making a very serious mistake... not only financially, but your safety at sea, or a major problem in a foreign port or half deserted island.

Suggest : Learn with a qualified instructor, get experience, and then purchase the really right vessel for you and your wife.

Most of the cruisers that we came across world wide were sailing mid to high 30 ft vessels.

That is what Erica and I prefer . Easily handled by two knowledgeable and trusted people, more available slips and moorings, dockage, and smaller swing room when anchored. Easier handling of sails, and maneuvering . No having to pick up unknown crew in some back water anchorage.

As you have read in these posts, there are a lot of suggestions that most new to sailing have no idea about. Listen well, me heardy, very excellent information.

Also, in my old age, and long time sailing, I have lost confidence in the shipshape,and seaworthiness condition of older boats for sale, no matter the photos or the comments by the owners or brokers. Of course , that is not all of them, but it is many of them.

Actually depends on the professionalism and motivation of the owner. Many do not want to accept that their beloved boat is not perfect. Well, time to pass on that one.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by SV Sailfish

Nick,

Based on what you said above... neither. Do not buy either boat.

If you really are going to jump into sailing for the first time with absolutely no experience, I say this in the strongest way possible... Only buy a boat that would be easy to resell at a moments notice. One that lots of others, (newbies included) would be looking to buy.

That would be Hunter, Catalina, etc. Not one off things like that schooner. (I sailed a schooner for years and loved it but would not touch that one with a 100 foot pole)

Right now, you are in the "starry eyed dreamer" stage. And that is a good place to be. But you have to think "real world" and here it is...

Thousands and thousands of people who were right where you are now that went ahead and bought a sailboat with dreams of far flung exotic ports are now back home with broken dreams or pending divorce, etc. While their "beautiful dream boat" is rotting in some marina or dry storage waiting for the next dreamer to buy it cheap and rescue the former owner/dreamer from his misery.

OK, here comes my "Dad" voice... Buy a turn-key popular production boat for now. Like a Catalina or Hunter. Learn to sail. See if both of you like it. See if you can handle getting sea sick. Some people cannot. See if you really can live together in a tiny space. Most people cannot.

I know that YouTube makes it look really exciting out here, but just in my area of Mexico, for every newbie that sails down from the Canada/US west coast with the Baja Ha Ha or otherwise, with a dream of "sailing around the world", about 8 out of 10 boats go no further. Their dreams pretty much dead on arrival. No, I am not the voice of doom and gloom. Just a reality check from a long time boat owner and world cruiser that sees way to many dreamers lose their dream, (and their money, marriage, etc.) and go home with their tails tucked in.

Nick, we want you out here with us. But I personally want you to succeed. Do not invest any more $$$ than you can afford to flush down the toilet. Because, down here, we see that happening each and every week. (Don't believe me? Just get on Yachtworld and see how many boats are for sale and sitting in dry storage lonely and neglected)

I applaud your dream but... baby steps buddy. Baby steps.

Nick, this is extremely well stated. I hope you consider the advise.

[Allied39]

Unless you are a welder by trade don't even consider the Al job.
Don't buy a project boat, unless you are very very handy.
The Morgan looks like it would be ok, but would have to know her better than whats available on the site.
A couple of points to remember,
-a engine replacement is an easy 20g, closer to 25g depending on horses.
-a complete paint job with a two part polyurethane that will last 10-15 years is about the same numbers as above.

So spending a bit more , especially with those two points considered , might be wise.

Just my opinion, no, not going to argue it.

[nortonscove]

For the love of all that is holy get the Morgan. If these are your choices that schooner would be the end of your sailing plans. I was once in that mindset but having managed a small boatyard for a couple decades I can say that given the choice of that type boat and an RV I would go to the dark side.

As what is essentially an amateur you are not equipped to deal with the potential and eventual issues offered up by the schooner.

[boatpoker]

Aluminum is a terrific boat material and can easily be destroyed in short order by a marine electrical neophyte.

Unless you are thoroughly versed in marine electrical systems, galvanic and stray current corrosion ..... then get a glass boat.

[Chris777]

This one?? Run Run.... looks like a so so homebuilt interior. Dont waste your money,

Good luck buy a known brand, And buy a sloop. My 2 c