More Anchoring Etiquette: should I move?

[Niall leslie]

When I grew up sailing on the West of Scotland it was normal good manners to move if one was on a subsequent vessel and the distance between boats was a bit close. Personally, even if the water is shallow, less than 60 - 80 M. just does not give sufficient privacy etc.

Good Luck,

Niall.

[Lancerbye]

I have had this happen more than once. One time the other boat person told me that I was too close, but I could tell that his boat was dragging. So I up anchored and moved a far ways away and watched as he continued to drag and get too close to another boat. He had been quite belligerent about his rights also. I had a good chuckle when I saw him having to pull up anchor and move far away from the pack. I could tell that his anchoring skills were lacking. I find that people who are not that experienced will often be the most aggressive.

[FabioC]

I actually tend to symphatize with the gentleman...
Obviously, he felt strongly that it was a potentially dangerous situation, strongly enough for him to end up pulling up anchor at night and motoring to another anchorage, not something that you do lightly...
Perhaps his concerns were missed in the conversation in a foreign language. Perhaps he was worried that the wind would continue to swing and your boat would end up upwind of his and potentially drag on him? Or perhaps he was concerned by the potentially very different swing circle of your cat vs. his monohull? Who knows...
Clearly, something bothered him a lot. If in the course of the conversation, he said (or yelled) that unless you moved, he would have to move, then you should certainly have moved as the later boat, even if you did not agree with his assessment of the situation.

[Siberian Sea]

Myself when I arrive at an anchorage I give respectful priority to any vessels already there in both terms of security as well as privacy. Now as it sometimes happens there comes the times I find myself maybe close to my neighbors and in these situations I make an effort to communicate with them about my intentions and the close proximity of our vessels. Never once was I asked to move however I remain ready to do so given the fact that I had arrived there after them and I feel it’s my responsibility to safety accommodate the space. People can be weird and freak out if they perceived your intrusive in their space. I don’t like to be pushed around by others however I hate conflict too, 99% of folks are understanding. It’s a big ocean for sure but the anchorages can be small.

[sailcrazy]

I agree with the OP. Seems to me that the bigger concern here is for the safety of the OP's boat and those aboard. And pulling the anchor, moving, and trying to safely re-anchor, at 0030, in a strange anchorage, at night, for a unlikely possible maybe....."I'm sorry, the number you have dialed is no longer in service"... it's not going to happen! If danger is eminent, or a collision is likely...well, OK, yes I 'll move. Otherwise, at 0030 in the morning-no way! I may sit boat watch in my cockpit all night, but I'm not moving, from a safe to an unknown/unsafe situation, for a possible maybe. My first obligation and concern is for my (collective) safety. Reminds me of the (coincidentally) French boat that pulled into a crowded anchorage we were already anchored in Greece. I asked him to move when he anchored less than 10m from us....and promptly told me to go "XXXX myself"! And I did sit "boat watch" most of the night. 'Course we've only been cruising since 1998, so our experience is somewhat limited.

[rmesfo]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Am I misreading the OP? He says they get no closer than 25 metres. I'm sorry... someone might not like this, but it is plenty of distance. It is perfectly reasonable.

I'm really finding this "first-in" claim to be increasingly ridiculous. Just because someone is anchored ahead of someone else, doesn't give them the right to occupy more space than is reasonable. It doesn't give them some super-power to over-ride everyone else's rights. It certainly doesn't give them the right to be a dyck.

I'd love to hear the other side of this story, but based solely on the OP's information, there is no way in hell I'd move. And certainly not at night, in a busy anchorage, when there has been no contact closer than 25 metres.

What Mike said. The rude dude must have been an elite.

[singlespeed]

Even the cruising world has it's share of idiots. You learn to pick your fights based on the situation. You indicated the man was inebriated, time to take video of the confrontation. He left the anchorage in an inebriated state, time to call the local authorities and warn them of a potential dangerous situation. You have video evidence and have possibly prevented a tragedy.

[garyfdl]

Admittedly, I may be the least experienced cruiser here, but taking the OP at their word...

The breach of etiquette is in showing up at another boat at zero-dark-thirty, drunk, belligerent, and demanding they move.

Now I'm not fluent in metric either, so I had to use a translate app, but the boats were ~100 feet apart? Seems like enough room to safely swing, and to afford a reasonable degree of privacy.

Again, I'm not the most experienced, but I have been in anchorages in the Chesapeake and Lake Michigan where you'd wish you had that much room.

As to the comment that the 'aggrieved' skipper "felt strongly that it was a potentially dangerous situation, strongly enough for him to end up pulling up anchor at night and motoring to another anchorage, not something that you do lightly"? Too much first hand experience has taught me that people rarely make sound decisions when they're drunk.

Seems to me that the skipper of the Oceanis is a 'little bit' entitled...

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lancerbye

. . . I find that people who are not that experienced will often be the most aggressive.

That's an iron law in all fields of human endeavor.

Those who are really experienced and really know what they are doing, who have been through every humbling experience, are the softest spoken and most modest.

[OS2Dude]

Being there first is great when you are arguing with someone who came later and wants you to move. If there was a realistic chance the two boats could have collided at some point then yes, first on scene usually has priority. But just because someone wants the entire anchorage to themselves and were the first ones there does not mean they get to dictate the position of everyone who comes after.

To those who said the OP should have moved, what if the closest the two could get was 100 meters? 200? Does the first one there still have a 'right' to tell you to move because he thinks you're too close? At what distance does that 'right' materialize?

[Auklet]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

He wasn't home to deal with the problem when you anchored. When you were unable to convince him both of you were safe, you should have left.

The only thing being on a catamaran has to do with it is that you will be more affected by the wind than he, who will be affected by the currents in the area, if any. Any time it blows up in the night, your swinging circle and his could coincide in such a way that your vessel strikes his, and he was there before you.

IMO, it doesn't matter if someone is being irrational, if they claim their "I was there first rights," it was up to you to move. Even at night, even if you have to use radar and go in the pouring rain. (You might have to remind yourself "I have been wet before." It was exceedingly unfortunate that the two of you could not come to a meeting ground in daylight hours, but the time of day doesn't change the obligation to move, and nor does inconvenience.

Not to be down on your case, but I am wondering whether your fear that he might ram you was because your talk did not focus on the safety of both vessels, and more about arguing rights, and you wanted to win the argument.


Ann

Yes, Ann. The case of the Juniata decision cited in the other on-going thread here was based on the very thing you have alerted us to. Two vessels, one heavy laden and the other light. The storm and high winds came through. The lightly laden vessel became wind rode, but the heavy one tide rode. They did not swing together. The lightly laden vessel that had arrived first swung into the other. He was too close. Decision in favor of the first-arriving vessel. Evidently, the other skipper did not allow for various contingencies that arise in certain conditions.

People don’t often do not know what they don’t know, or may have too little basis of experience to foresee potential outcomes of possible events. The folks who probably write the rules do. An old salt in a traditional craft might know more than someone in a craft of relatively recent design and introduction that may not behave well in a crisis. Can’t explain that to a non native-language seaman in the middle of the night. Better to respect the rules that have been written, reviewed and widely applied.

[BlueH2Obound]

IMHO this situation comes down to two issues.

• First, are the vessels a safe distance apart?
• Second, Would it be safer to a) stay where you are, or b) up anchor, at night, in an unfamiliar anchorage, and attempt to find another suitable spot to anchor.

Both the above are subject to personal experience, familiarity with the anchorage, level of sobriety, etc. I'm sure different people will have different takes on it.

I think the owner of the first boat to anchor clearly displayed his poor judgement by deciding to rectify the situation by getting underway, from a safe situation, at night, and after he had been drinking. Pile that on top of his being argumentative, and there no way you are going to change his mind with facts.

I probably would have done what Naughty Cat did, and remained where I was.

[Clivevon]

25 metres sounds a bit too close for comfort to me, especially with 2 very different boat types. I think you should have moved if he had asked you soberly & in daylight, but in gentle conditions at night , maybe just put out some fenders??

[Auklet]

Originally Posted by Naughty Cat

We were lying parallel N-S. We had already swung 180 degrees and distances were sound. But he did not know that, I did. So I knew everything was fine. He did not, although if he knew the forecast he would also know that the wind had set in for the night and we were streaming parallel about 30m apart. Hence the question should I pander to someone's feelings when it is clear there is nothing to be concerned about - i.e. etiquette?

I’ve anchored at one of offshore islands here in CA where in the relatively light easterly wind of the early mornings the yacht aligns to the prevailing current moving north along the island. That’s typically true for the other monohulls. Can you say that this might also be true of your catamaran—resists the wind? Or, would it meander its way even in light air across the anchoring area? I suppose chain rode would mitigate that kind of movement. But what’s a reasonable “fear” or uncertainty in the eyes of a beholder here? When anchored with other boats nearby there actually could well be things to be concerned about. Strange comment.

[Kd9truck]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Am I misreading the OP? He says they get no closer than 25 metres. I'm sorry... someone might not like this, but it is plenty of distance. It is perfectly reasonable.

I'm really finding this "first-in" claim to be increasingly ridiculous. Just because someone is anchored ahead of someone else, doesn't give them the right to occupy more space than is reasonable. It doesn't give them some super-power to over-ride everyone else's rights. It certainly doesn't give them the right to be a dyck.

I'd love to hear the other side of this story, but based solely on the OP's information, there is no way in hell I'd move. And certainly not at night, in a busy anchorage, when there has been no contact closer than 25 metres.

I feel the same way, if I am understanding the OPs version of the circumstances 75 feet/25 metres is quite generous between vessels in a mooring field…..I will say in my professional opinion that his level of intoxication added to his dismay, and that it can be difficult to estimate distance on water, boat lengths not withstanding.

The other Yachtie may have had a legitimate argument if he was sober but
Simply put this sounds like an ARI (alcohol related incident).

Soap box Side note: I personally have no time for what seems like belligerent drunk rationale, I had to deal with mentally impaired people that got themselves and others in trouble almost every day worked in my occupation in NYC, I have seen a great many smart people ruin their lives “under the influence” and even more narrowly escape life altering circumstances.

To those who like to drink, enjoy, do what you do, but do not act on things you feel strongly about, are offended by, or are being persuaded to do. It will not end well. If you drink regularly then you know what I am talking about.