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Old 29-06-2020, 14:45   #1
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Manoeuvering Tight quaters

Situation:
You want to be std side alonside.Your coming to floating dock on port side.You turn to port and make it perpendicular to dock but in reverse you loose what you gainned to port.
Could you have a spring from the std side pass in front of stem and push on it and swing the rest of the way?
Turn to stb first in boat lenght;
Dock port side alongside and turn when leaving?
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Old 29-06-2020, 14:52   #2
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

A scetch would help me a lot
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Old 29-06-2020, 14:54   #3
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

In my mind, it would depend somewhat on how the boat in question maneuvers, and a lot on what the available space is. If you've got enough space and the space you're trying to land in (on a side tie) is significantly longer than the boat, you can do it pretty much however you want. The tighter the space gets for maneuvering and docking, the less options you'll have.
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Old 29-06-2020, 14:58   #4
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by copaco View Post
Situation:
You want to be std side alonside.Your coming to floating dock on port side.You turn to port and make it perpendicular to dock but in reverse you loose what you gainned to port.
Could you have a spring from the std side pass in front of stem and push on it and swing the rest of the way?
Turn to stb first in boat lenght;
Dock port side alongside and turn when leaving?
If you absolutely cannot make the 180 degree turn in the space allowed then there are some options.

If there is a wind blowing you may be able to utilize that to help you complete your turn. Try turning into the wind. If you can just get past stays, the use slight power to hold you from falling back and then the wind will blow the bow off and Bob's your uncle.

Or, come to the dock port side to and then swing the boat with warps.

Or, go well past the dock if there is a place with more room to complete your turn.

Or, turn the boat around out in the turning basin and back in. Even if your boat does not normally back well under power if you get it going where there is plenty of room, then you should be able to keep your steerageway once you get it moving in reverse.

Finally, consider the advantage of a fin keel boat with a spade rudder. They will often be able to rotate 360 degrees around the keel as a pivot point.
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Old 29-06-2020, 14:59   #5
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

A few things come to mind...

If you say that you "lose what you gained to port" in reverse then your boat obviously has prop walk to port. In which case why did you want to be starboard side-to? I would have chosen port side-to in the first place to make life easy.

A "spring" (or whatever it would be called) running around the bow is a really bad idea. When the tension comes on (and when it comes on more than you expect) it can get fouled up in the anchor roller or pulpit, or it can roll way down the stem, and then plenty of it is in the water while you're motoring around attached to it -- not something I'd like to be worrying about while trying not to hit things.

Turning when leaving is always much easier, as you can start by setting out whatever springs you like and you're in complete control from the beginning of the manoeuvre.

In a narrow or tight situation, it's likely that wind and tide may be more significant things to consider, and make sure they're helping you.

If I had to be starboard side-to then I would turn first (if there was room), or reverse in (again, if the other conditions such as wind and tide suited it). In a very tight situation it can even be appropriate to moor alongside another boat and then hand-haul the boat into its final position. Anything to minimise risk of hitting someone or something else during the process.

Make sure you have your exit plan in place -- if things aren't going well can you put some power and tiller on and get out of trouble into a safe space? If not, perhaps rethink the plan. This is the reason I often like to go in backwards -- the exit route is simple and quick.
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Old 29-06-2020, 15:40   #6
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

Quote:
Originally Posted by copaco View Post
Situation:
You want to be std side alonside.Your coming to floating dock on port side.You turn to port and make it perpendicular to dock but in reverse you loose what you gainned to port.

Don't do that.



Take the power out at a point in the turn such that you don't need to reverse or at least not much.



Then get an aft or balance-point spring line on and gently power ahead.



Quote:

Could you have a spring from the std side pass in front of stem and push on it and swing the rest of the way?
Turn to stb first in boat lenght;
Dock port side alongside and turn when leaving?

IME you want spring lines to be easy to release from the cockpit and you want to be sure they won't snag on something. A bow spring line, especially, can cause the boat to move unpredictably and turn extremely quickly if you can't control (i.e. release) it.
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Old 29-06-2020, 16:26   #7
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

Hello, copaco,

Hope this helps, it is how Jim and I do it. Before you go in to where you want to tie up the boat, get your lines ready, and lead them to where the hull has maximum beam, with the tails over the lifelines, easy to grab from the dock. What you will need to install, if you don't already have one, is an amidships cleat, complete with backing plate. Then, you're ready with a "brake line", a short spring line that goes over the amidships cleat AND the outermost cleat on the dock. Motor in fwd against the dock cleat, and you can control (by leaving the engine in idle, forward) where the boat goes, leaving the tiller or wheel steering the boat towards the dock. If you have a crew they step down to the dock, and can grab the stern and bow lines from where you left the tails hanging over the life line, and get them on; if you're alone, wait for the boat to settle at the dock. If you have "bull rails" on your dock, this isn't going to work for you. But it will work with adverse wind or current, with docks with cleats.

If the dock has piles, if you can get a line on the stern pile, you can motor against that,
but if you only have bull rails, someone better than me is going to have to explain how to do that, singlehanded. With a crew, it can be done.

Ann
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Old 29-06-2020, 16:44   #8
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

somebody has to say it so it might as well be me...

not a problem for a catamaran...twin prop = turn in own length...move sideways...too easy

i was also shown once how to turn a single prop boat is own length, but you need a hydraulic gearbox...full rudder, then full ahead to full astern repeatedly. never work with a mechanical g/box...

cheers,
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Old 29-06-2020, 16:55   #9
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Manoeuvering Tight quaters

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Originally Posted by chrisr View Post
somebody has to say it so it might as well be me...



not a problem for a catamaran...twin prop = turn in own length...move sideways...too easy



i was also shown once how to turn a single prop boat is own length, but you need a hydraulic gearbox...full rudder, then full ahead to full astern repeatedly. never work with a mechanical g/box...



cheers,


With a mechanical gearbox and lots of prop walk the ahead/astern works well for me. I can drop my mooring and with rudder hard to starboard alternate forward and reverse. I end up with my transom right at the mooring I just dropped. If I come to a dock I want to be starboard side too to, and itís to port, I pass the spot, spin in place to starboard, and go into the spot.
(5 uses of to in one sentence!!)

Looks very odd to bystanders.

Practice in open water. Try starboard spins. Port spins. Forward. Reverse. Find out what works for you and your boat.
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Old 29-06-2020, 19:12   #10
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

If there is not enough room the turn the boat 180 degrees, and you do not have a cat, then under conditions of little wind and current you may be able to complete the turn in little space as described above, but really you need to turn clockwise, as prop walk on most boats is that stern is pulled to port, and with the rudder over to SB (that is turn wheel to SB or helm stick to port).

However the above manouvre, can leave you in a predicament with no real way out like Tillsbury said above.

I would do like Jammer and Ann said (or I think this is what they said, plus I added some details):
- get a line ready on midships cleat, ideally one end looped over that cleat and the end returning to that cleat, so having the large loop ready at the bow. This way you can adjust the length of that line (called 'springer'). Note, these lines to be fed from the cleat on the boat, under the lifelines, and then outside to the bow of the boat (ensure that jib sheets are not in the way either
- get at least 2 fenders, on the SB side, one close the bow ie 1-3 mt back (depending how pointy or blunt the bow is), one midships, and if you have 3 fenders, last one closer to the stern
- motor up perpendicular to the jetty, slowly
- this manouvre is only going to work if the boat is 90 degrees or more to the jetty, ie easier with the SB is a little closer than the port side, or if the wind is coming from the jetty and blows the boat away from the jetty. If this is not the case, then another manouvre is needed.
- when crew standing on the bow, SB side, loop the springer over cleat or pylon
- rudder is still likely hard to port
- now motor gently forward, best to use small bursts of power, to get the bow to turn to port, away from jetty
- during this time, a crew can shorten the springer if needed (ie if there is not much jetty room)
- keep going forward, the springer will get tight, and use the foremost fender as a pivot point.
- the stern will come closer to the jetty, and once alongside, more or less parallel
- keep the rudder hard to port, and the engine idle in slow forward, and the boat will sit there safely, pushing 2 fenders against the jetty, and held in place by the springer
- If the wind blows hard off shore (away from the jetty), then more engine power need to be used
- now tie other lines, stern line, bow line and an other springer going the other way (from front of boat to the aft of the jetty)
- engine can now put in neutral and switched off

I'm sure some where on the net there will be drawings to illustrate the above much better.

I have have been using this maneuver or variation on that for years, and hundreds of times, both on powerboats and sailing boats. Yes, on cats with 2 engines is much easier, and a bowthruster makes it easy too. I do this on my boat (20+ tons) often singlehandedly. No, I don't have a bowthruster. Just plenty of cleats and ropes.
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Old 29-06-2020, 19:31   #11
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

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Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
if you only have bull rails, someone better than me is going to have to explain how to do that, singlehanded. With a crew, it can be done.

I don't claim to be better than anyone however there are a couple of techniques for bull rails.


1) Many bull rails, at the end of the finger, extend past the last vertical support forming a sort of oversized cleat where it is possible to get a loop on.


2) You can use a grapnel. Small, folding grapnels are available and have various other uses also, as dinghy anchors, retrieving lost items, if it is necessary to tow an abandoned boat out of the shallows, etc.
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Old 29-06-2020, 20:04   #12
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

Not sure what "bull rails" are. I agree with above (Jammer), that a grapnel can be very helpful, and also be used in this situation.
I have two on board, one with long (10-12 mt) 6 mm rope, and and one shorter (4-5 mt) with 10 mm rope, and yes, this 10 mm rope will hold my boat easily for such maneuvers. When coming to a jetty/dock, I have them always ready to deploy, one on the bow and one on the stern.
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Old 29-06-2020, 20:17   #13
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

I go bow into the wind/current, I aim to have nil velocity when I come up to the dock. Slow is pro and all that.

Worked for seaplanes, works for the boat two, if the conditions don’t warrant docking to X side “unable”
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Old 29-06-2020, 20:22   #14
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

Bull rail solo docking

https://youtu.be/yKu9s2MC-cw
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Old 30-06-2020, 02:43   #15
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Re: Manoeuvering Tight quaters

Whent over fast but will study,Thanks all.
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