Lower genoa telltale hanging limp?

[OldFrog75]

Yesterday we ran our genoa sheet through a block attached to the toe rail and pretty far aft to add foot tension (sort of a poor man's barber hauler). I was told if the bottom genoa telltale is hanging limp the sail could be overtrimmed and the sheet needs to be eased.

Seems to go against everything I thought I knew.

Comments?

[Sailmonkey]

My definition of barber hauler is out, not aft. If tou were sailing off of the wind and had the foot strapped, then likely you were trimmed too tightly. But there are a lot of other variable to address too.

[JPA Cate]

Inner or outer telltale? what was the apparent wind direction?/your point of sail??

[OldFrog75]

Originally Posted by Sailmonkey

My definition of barber hauler is out, not aft. If tou were sailing off of the wind and had the foot strapped, then likely you were trimmed too tightly. But there are a lot of other variable to address too.

The inner/windward telltale was hanging down.

It was "out" from the standpoint of running through a block attached to the toe rail rather than running through the inside car. It was "aft" on the toe rail to increase foot tension.

We were on a beam reach.

[Sailmonkey]

Sounds to me like you were over trimmed, and when reaching off you move the sheeting point forward to open up the sail.

[FecklessDolphin]

When you position the genoa lead aft, you tighten the foot, but you also open the leech. This creates more twist in the sail. With more twist, if you have the upper portion of the sail trimmed to the wind with the telltales flying, the bottom portion of the sail will be overtrimmed, also known as stalled. You can play with your genoa cars, moving them forward and aft, to observe how their positioning affects which telltales (uppers or lowers) are flying. The optimal position of the genoa cars will vary with wind and sea conditions. If you do not have genoa tracks, hopefully your leads were placed in an intermediate position where the uppers and lowers fly together in moderate wind conditions.

[Dennis.G]

Moving genny car back (or using snatch block aft) will tend to flatten foot of sail and let head twist off downwind. If upper sail is looking good sounds like your lower sail area is stalled out. Likely should undo what you did, and sheet the genny from a point further forward on rail.

[OldFrog75]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions/comments.

Sheeting angles aside, I'm having trouble understanding why the immediate reaction to a limp windward telltale (stalled) is to ease the sheet or head up.

Seems counter-intuitive given if the windward telltale were luffing or dancing the appropriate action is to sheet in or fall off.

[Neo]

Originally Posted by OldFrog75

I'm having trouble understanding why the immediate reaction to a limp windward telltale (stalled) is to ease the sheet or head up.

It only seems to make sense if you were on a broad reach.

[tamicatana]

OldFrog,

Simply said: move the sail in the direction of the hanging telltale.

If the lee tale is hanging (stalled), ease the sheet. If the windward tale is hanging, sheet in.

Or, instead of sheeting in, turn the boat accordingly.

[caradow]

sounds like you were simply over-trimmed in a de-powered setting.
you were set up to de-power a sail that theoretically was too large for the given wind conditions. ie: open slot with increased twist

not sure what you were trying to achieve otherwise.
also basically your lower telltail by luffing was the same as if you were sailing too high an angle to the wind. cracking the sheets should give you a better angle of attack and the lower telltail should start flying again.

btw you can sometimes increase halyard tension and this will give you a wider groove and remedy this situation also. this is good to know for times the helmsman is having difficulty keeping the boat moving through a lumpy sea.

good luck