Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

[odonnellryan]

Had a staysail boom on my Hunter Cherubini for 2 seasons, took it off for a long trip to put the dinghy on the bow, realized that I didn't notice any difference with it off vs. with it on.

It still self tacks fine.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by hpeer

Yes on some boats that is an issue. Our boats have bow sprits, which extends the area you have to work with and the distance between forestay and inner forestay. On the 44’er it is 5’. With that big a slot it is usual not a problem.

FWIW, on our previous boat, an early IOR design with very big headsails, when we added an inner forestay tacking the genoa was impeded... but if we had the staysail up, it actually helped with tacking the genoa... kinda guided it around the stay and kept the sheet from hanging up going around the inner stay. The staysail did not add to boat speed, but it sure made tacking quicker.

Jim

PS I guess I should have said that we tacked the genoa first, leaving the staysail backwinded until the gennie was sheeted home. Then tacking the staysail was dead easy... didn't even need to use a winch.

[Mauruuru]

I use a self tacking jib on my Seaward 32RK. Sheet is anchored on stbd runs through swivel block at the sail and is led through a port mounted swivel turning block and aft to clutch and cabin top winch. Never had a problem controlling sail or with jamming. Sail is on a furler. Avoid the boom!

[hpeer]

There are so many different variables in a “cutter rig” that these things become difficult to discuss in any meaningful manner. Besides the rig a small boats foredeck is smaller than a big boats foredeck and the placement of the mast means something. Besides the bow sprit. Then you consider where, and how the boat is used under what conditions. And the temperament and intentions of the skipper.

Lots of variables. Its no problem wonder we have different opinions.

[billcrowley]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Why do you use a Staysail running down wind? It seems to have little to no effect then.

(From my limited experience the Staysail is a going to windward thing, helping to form a slot between the Genoa and main and increase lift, downwind it’s simply too small and blanked by the main.).

My previous vessel carried a staysail on a boom that was of nearly equal in size to the jib. On a run of any length, I would use a whisker pole to pole it out opposite of the jib & mainsail, which was both effective and attractive, IMHO.

[NedX]

Originally Posted by hpeer

There are so many different variables in a “cutter rig” that these things become difficult to discuss in any meaningful manner. Besides the rig a small boats foredeck is smaller than a big boats foredeck and the placement of the mast means something. Besides the bow sprit. Then you consider where, and how the boat is used under what conditions. And the temperament and intentions of the skipper.

Lots of variables. Its no problem wonder we have different opinions.

IMHO as the OP I'm finding this thread to be very meaningful, as it has given me a lot to research. The fact that people have different, informed options based on thousands of miles of sailing experience is a strength, not a weakness.

You hpeer have been very helpful, although I cannot find specs on your larger boat anywhere.

[hpeer]

If you find specs on that boat please share them with me. LOL

She is a semi-custom, originally designed as a ketch by Pape but the original owner, who had her built, had Pape recast her as a cutter. She is, believe, called a SteelMaid. There were about a dozen ketches built, but only one cutter as far as I know.

[rhpike]

I have had my 2007 IP 440 since 2009, when I bought her new. Removed the Hoyt boom last summer with no apparent negative effect on staysail trimming and sail shape. I'm a member of the IP Facebook site, and many owner of IPs in the 30-foot range have removed their staysail booms and are also happy with the staysail performance. Much more unobstructed room on the foredeck is very nice to have.

[saillr]

I too have an IP 40 with furling staysail. I agree with A64 that they take up way too much space. Valuable space. I sail mostly single handed on ocean voyages and the staysail is essential as an easy way to reduce sail by simply furling the jib. It also makes it easy to Heave-to in heavy weather. However, the sail is so small that it really needs at least 25 knots of wind to be effective. I removed the stays'l boom and rigged the sheets to each side of the cockpit for control. Halyards are all in place at cockpit so no reason to go on deck. No boom thrashing around. No problem tacking the genoa if you have UV treated Dacron as a sun cover. It is slippery and the genoa slips thru the slot easily if you have a little breeze.
The only reason I can see for having a staysail boom is for self tacking in a narrow channel. How often will you find yourself in a narrow channel, sailing to windward in 25+ knots? In those conditions I prefer to motor and keep my eyes on traffic.

[NedX]

Originally Posted by saillr

I too have an IP 40 with furling staysail. I agree with A64 that they take up way too much space. Valuable space. I sail mostly single handed on ocean voyages and the staysail is essential as an easy way to reduce sail by simply furling the jib. It also makes it easy to Heave-to in heavy weather. However, the sail is so small that it really needs at least 25 knots of wind to be effective. I removed the stays'l boom and rigged the sheets to each side of the cockpit for control. Halyards are all in place at cockpit so no reason to go on deck. No boom thrashing around. No problem tacking the genoa if you have UV treated Dacron as a sun cover. It is slippery and the genoa slips thru the slot easily if you have a little breeze.
The only reason I can see for having a staysail boom is for self tacking in a narrow channel. How often will you find yourself in a narrow channel, sailing to windward in 25+ knots? In those conditions I prefer to motor and keep my eyes on traffic.

Thanks for your answer. I think my whole conundrum encapsulated in my original post is born of picking my way through the narrow channels that characterize New England coastal waters. Clearly, from this thread, if I were to choose this boat and the itineraries for which it is intended, short-tacking channels would be among the lesser of my problems.