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Old 20-11-2020, 21:07   #31
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

I suggest you should take a hard look at a GOZZARD cutter. --- I did, compared it to an IP and ended up buying a Gozzard 36... In my view a better sailing boat, better construction and with many novel amenities to make cruising much, much more pleasurable.


As for your question about staysails... on my Gozzard 36 I have a boomless furling staysail with its single sheet leading back to a block on a single car running on a track installed forward of the mast on the deck house The position of the staysail sheet car on the traveller track is controlled by 2 tow lines with tow sheaves at the port and starboard ends of the traveller track. The tow sheaves lets me control the center position of the staysail sheet block on the traveller.


I love my staysail and this set up which makes the staysail self-tacking or self-tending----- Before even initiating the tack, I can predetermine where the staysail will set after the tack by first setting and cleating off the end of the traveler tow lines. This leaves me free to deal with the jib and the main on a tack.

When the wind starts to really pick up, I completely furl my jib, put a reef or two in the main and the staysail acts as as a storm jib with its centre of effort closer to the mast. Heaving too is easy.

When sailing downwind, I can sail wing-on-wing by completely furling my mainsail, use the mainsail boom as a pole for poling out my jib and use a whisker pole to pole out the staysail on the other side.

When reaching I prefer a high-cut yankee as the foresail and when combined with my staysail lets me really haul ass.

I also own another sailboat -- a Halman Horizon 32, also a cutter, (you can tell I am partial to cutters) which unfortunately has a hanked-on staysail with a staysail boom..

I intend to get rid of the staysail boom as quickly as possible for the following reasons: 1) the staysail boom is constantly in the way ... when accessing the anchor/propane/fender locker, when trying to store my dinghy on deck, when anchoring or hauling anchor, when tieing off my bow dock lines, when putting out or retrieving fenders, when trying to reef or furl the staysail .... 2) with a boomed staysail it is impractical, if not impossible, to install a furler for the staysail ---which , in turn, means I am forced to go up on the foredeck to physically reef or furl the staysail with its dangerous wandering boom,... 3) when I go forward to furl or reef the staysail I am acutely aware of how exposed I am knowing that if the boat should jibe then the low-slung staysail boom sweeping across the foredeck will likely break an ankle or leg and sweep me overboard.

So long story short .... I've hands-on experience with both a boomed and boomless staysail----for me, as much as I love the staysail, if my choice is either a boomed staysail or none then I would rather go without any staysail at all than a boomed staysail (and of course I would really rather have a boomless staysail) ....just my two bits......
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Old 20-11-2020, 22:36   #32
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

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Originally Posted by foothillsailor View Post
I suggest you should take a hard look at a GOZZARD cutter. --- I did, compared it to an IP and ended up buying a Gozzard 36... In my view a better sailing boat, better construction and with many novel amenities to make cruising much, much more pleasurable.


As for your question about staysails... on my Gozzard 36 I have a boomless furling staysail with its single sheet leading back to a block on a single car running on a track installed forward of the mast on the deck house The position of the staysail sheet car on the traveller track is controlled by 2 tow lines with tow sheaves at the port and starboard ends of the traveller track. The tow sheaves lets me control the center position of the staysail sheet block on the traveller.
.
Thank you, I will definitely check out the Gozzard. The set-up you describe sounds like the arrangement of the self-tacking Soling I also sail; I agree it's a happy medium because of the control the tow sheaves give you.
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Old 23-11-2020, 08:08   #33
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
Two boats; both cutters with staysail booms.

I don't get the hatred either.
I have sailed an IP 45 and I know one issue the staysail creates. It is far more difficult to tack a genoa on the forestay. Totally because the forestay and the staysail stay are so close together. So if you are short taking up a channel it is best to use Staysail. That is the reason many new designs no longer have permanent staysails. You just shorten the Genoa.

Personally I like the staysail. Iíd rather roll up the Genoa when it gets breezy and deploy the Staysail.
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Old 23-11-2020, 08:26   #34
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

i have a pic of a boat with a camberspar staysail on my avatar. Notice how the staysail stay has a bump on the luff? Thats the camberspar.
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Old 23-11-2020, 08:31   #35
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

I nstalle the Hoyt boom for my stay sail that is used in close-hauled sailing.
Since I keep my dinghy on the foredeck I installed the boom higher to clear the dinghy. Sheets with blocks attached to the stanchion feet on either side and back to the cockpit.
Problem is that the boom needs a manual push to the other side when tacking.
The angle of the sheets at the boom is small and so the sail does not flip over easily, there is too much resistance in the sheets and blocks.
Any idea, how that can be fixed?
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Old 23-11-2020, 09:17   #36
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

staysail boom, who cares? use it or get rid of it, no big deal. I have one in the garage, never used it once. Get a staysail cut with the clew at the right Hight to sheet it from low on the mast on a bail. sheet it using a 3:1 purchase. utilizing a clew board with 6 positions. feed the loose end of the sheet to wherever. I( use this sailplain on a Corbin 39 cutter. I am able to short tack in narrow channels with just me on the boat, sans genoa. life is good
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Old 23-11-2020, 09:18   #37
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

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Originally Posted by longjonsilver View Post
i have a pic of a boat with a camberspar staysail on my avatar. Notice how the staysail stay has a bump on the luff? Thats the camberspar.
?????
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Old 23-11-2020, 09:21   #38
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

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Originally Posted by NedX View Post
Thank you, I will definitely check out the Gozzard. The set-up you describe sounds like the arrangement of the self-tacking Soling I also sail; I agree it's a happy medium because of the control the tow sheaves give you.
yes, I had owned and raced a Abbott 33 with the self tacker. great system
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Old 23-11-2020, 09:51   #39
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

Iíve had a Hoyt boom for the last two years on my Blue Jacket 40. I was skeptical about it at first, having heard a lot of negatives. The first year was ok, but now Iím a fan. Great sail control and if going to windward it makes tacking a breeze. Off the wind I can run wing and wing without losing control. Iím still learning all it can do but I really like it so far.
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Old 23-11-2020, 14:29   #40
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

sailed staysails. no jib boom for lots of years. Especially Erica's cutter rigged Crealock 37 sloop. Narry a problem, lads and lasses.

But....

Just one tale of dumb with a jb boom on a Freedom maybe 34 (?)... in the BVI , many years ago.. Bare boat, four people, two skilled, and great friends who wanted to work and be part of the experience. This beast also had main sheet electric winch... not good. Very slow. And I mean SLOOOW.

We were sailing down wind, wing and wing, with a preventer rigged to the aft end of the giant bloody mainsail boom and secured to the starboard bow cleat forward. Approaching land, had to jjbe the main over to get away from land and head over to Jost Van Dyke.

This will be entertaining and worth a rum.

No big deal, I have everyone at their duty station, all set to handle the sheets, and the helm. I need to go up forward to release the long line main boom preventer. Not ued to jib booms, but I sure am now.

I release the mainsail boom preventer at the bow, and start to walk back to bring the line back to the cockpit and remove it totally from the aft section of the boom. Do not need it for the next tack, broad reaching direct to Little Harbor on Jost.

Nancy was trying to hual in on the main sheet, that has an eclectric winch, her feet up on the cabin bulkhead...pullling hard. The .bloody thing would not break out, and the process was slow.

I am looking at her, and thinking about avoiding being hit by that huge mainsail boom .

WAHMMOOOOO ! I am hit hard at the base of my skull and an now airborne heading over the life lines, and overboard. I dropped the slacked preventer, and can see this is not going to be good. I am going overboard head first.

As I am now totally flying thru space, I tucked by elbows in and made 45 degree hooks with my arms that snagged the lifeline. Feet are in the air, momentem from the hit, my body wavers a bit and crashes down onto the fore deck splashway. The preventer is now still secured to the aft end of the boom and trailing astern.

We finailly complete the jibe, trim for a broad reach, and I hual in , remove and stow the now C-gasketed preventer.

What the hell happend ??. Well, as we got ready to jibe, due to the canyons of the island , a wind shifts and the fairly high off the deck metal jib boom caught the wind and did its own ferocious jibe. I never saw it coming.

Now all is squared away, our friends were motor vessel owners in Minnesota and voulteered for the sheriffs dept rescue squad, They checked out my eyeball transiting from left to ritht, and the back of my head. One of them goes down below and gets some ice and a red dishtowel, and ties a lovely bow on the top of my head, the ice pressed to the base of my skull.

The other one, pours a tall glass of Mt. Gay Rum, and we are toasting and laughing. I believe we still have the photo of me up top side, that silly looking bright red bandana tied to my head, a rum in my hand, and the other hand giving the middle finger salute with a smile to the camera.

Now, I know about jib booms and plan accordingly with actual situational awareness of those Freedom Boat metal skull whackers..

Other lesson, always sail with a good supply of Rum. And you can't kill an Irishman by hitting him on the head.

Seems we can always turn a negative into a positive. Easier go go thru life..
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Old 23-11-2020, 15:25   #41
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

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Originally Posted by sailr69 View Post
?????


Tip of camberspar on staysail stay. Notice the angle.

jon
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Old 23-11-2020, 15:35   #42
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

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Originally Posted by Lihuedooley77 View Post

Now, I know about jib booms and plan accordingly with actual situational awareness of those Freedom Boat metal skull whackers..

Other lesson, always sail with a good supply of Rum. And you can't kill an Irishman by hitting him on the head.

Seems we can always turn a negative into a positive. Easier go go thru life..
A taleóand a lessonóworthy of another glass. I'll pour bourbon. Thank you for sharing.
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Old 23-11-2020, 16:01   #43
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

On my CR38 I’ve owned for 16 years there is a staysail boom. When tightened up from cockpit my boom does not go over the side deck so no problem. Attached to deck with pelican clamp. Quick release and move to side deck when lifting off dinghy. Always had it up during circumnavigation. 9 1/2 foot AB dinghy fit under it. As noted great for wing on wing. Cabo Rico does have bowsprit. I also have a self tending headsail using a boom brake.
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Old 23-11-2020, 22:36   #44
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

Have a 40 ft cat and the small self tacking sail. I do most of my sailing single handed and it gets used heaps. It tacks on a curved track and is just set and forget.
Used in heavy weather, up wind reaching and close quarters. It adds about 0.5 to 1 knot of speed depending on conditions.
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Old 24-11-2020, 03:26   #45
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Re: Let's talk self-tending staysails and booms

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Originally Posted by Happ View Post
I have sailed an IP 45 and I know one issue the staysail creates. It is far more difficult to tack a genoa on the forestay. Totally because the forestay and the staysail stay are so close together. So if you are short taking up a channel it is best to use Staysail. That is the reason many new designs no longer have permanent staysails. You just shorten the Genoa.

Personally I like the staysail. Iíd rather roll up the Genoa when it gets breezy and deploy the Staysail.
Yes on some boats that is an issue. Our boats have bow sprits, which extends the area you have to work with and the distance between forestay and inner forestay. On the 44íer it is 5í. With that big a slot it is usual not a problem.
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