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Old 03-09-2017, 22:00   #346
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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It seems that the companies providing chart plotters should add a feature that recognizes that there is a boat is on a collision course with land. All the information is available to the software. Should be an easy feature to add. Not sure why they don't already have this.
Actually the new navionics app seems to do this I think. Haven't tried, but you can create your route manually or theres a function that allows the program to pick the best route using the perimeters you put in, draft etc.

Don't quote me, I'll have a look later.
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Old 04-09-2017, 03:11   #347
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

...interesting, that people cross an ocean without an oceanic paperchart...
the excitement of seeing the little crosses creep over the vast ocean...where is it gone?
maybe to the scrapheap along with their sextants & associated skills...
I'm grateful to have had the chance (not much choice then...) of 2 rtws with sextant - only navigation. seems in the name of "safety" a lot of satisfaction & excitement (sometimes more than one cared for, I admit!) has gone down the drain
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Old 04-09-2017, 04:12   #348
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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You have got to be kidding - nanny state much? There is no 'should' in free market economics. Besides which, can you imagine the liability nightmare if the chart plotter warns and the boat still runs aground? Or if the plotter doesn't warn because the track it knows about is clear of any land, but then the track changes? And how do you define "land"?

But you go ahead and request the feature. If the companies see that it's a wanted feature that can differentiate their offering and they're happy to wear the liability then they'll offer the feature.

Meanwhile, put on your big-boy pants and promote personal responsibility.
The guy is suggesting a potentially useful and easy to implement feature. No need to go off on him with a rant about personal responsibility.

Every technology that makes travel safer and more convenient has the potential be be abused or misused. You can remove the seat belts from your car because they bunch up your big-boy pants, but it's probably not a good idea.
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:14   #349
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

Thats quite a few boats hitting reefs or banks because of charts zoomed too far out, lesson to learn. As for insurance, we were quoted 3k for a 50k boat for a transatlantic, we declined, the odds really don't match the premiums. Many people we met did not have insurance for the longer crossings.

Personally I never cut closer than 1NM to shore unless required to, It gives you a bit of thinking time should anything go wrong, Sea-room is a good thing to have!

In this case it looks like the skipper has set a way point and not zoomed in or assumed the blue was safe, thought he had more distance than he actually had and has came a cropper.

The main lesson from this and other similar stories is keep your plotter zoomed in!
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:40   #350
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

...or to throw the damned thing over the side! ("...If your hand or your foot causes you to fall into sin, cut it off and throw it away....")
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Old 04-09-2017, 06:55   #351
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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You have got to be kidding - nanny state much? There is no 'should' in free market economics. Besides which, can you imagine the liability nightmare if the chart plotter warns and the boat still runs aground? Or if the plotter doesn't warn because the track it knows about is clear of any land, but then the track changes? And how do you define "land"?

But you go ahead and request the feature. If the companies see that it's a wanted feature that can differentiate their offering and they're happy to wear the liability then they'll offer the feature.

Meanwhile, put on your big-boy pants and promote personal responsibility.


My Garmin setup has the ability to track moving targets with radar, even though those targets occasionally disappear and come back again. It will also create a route that avoids mapped obstacles. The technology to avoid a reef already seems to be there, though it could be bypassed by setting a direct route, so I don't see a liability issue at all. Even if there was one a simple disclaimer in addition to the one you have to agree to before the system even operates would suffice.

Like a previous poster, I don't think they deserve condemnation because they didn't catch every possibility for error in their approach. I dare say that with 200k miles he had enough experience to catch 99.9% of them.
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Old 07-09-2017, 11:00   #352
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

Do you use SonarCharts? This is a worthwhile read and sailor beware of the 'FakeViews'.

Crystal Blues: Navionics Sonar Charts & The Missing Reef
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Old 07-09-2017, 15:43   #353
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

What this boils down to, is the Search & Rescue guys on Huahine knew about this problem, but not exactly what it was. Evans pinpointed that. The Crystal Blues incident imho, shows an endemic problem with the whole product.

Navionics are quite willing to fix the errors, but only AFTER someone has grounded. Some of those groundings are only expensive, others have cost people their boats.

When you compare navionics advertising with the harm their apparent negligence and laissez-faire policy has done--well, words fail me!

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Old 16-09-2017, 12:36   #354
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

Salvage photo
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Old 16-09-2017, 12:43   #355
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

Thank you for the picture, Paul. Do you know what happens to the boat from there?

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Old 16-09-2017, 13:12   #356
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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Thank you for the picture, Paul. Do you know what happens to the boat from there?

Ann
Ann,
From a friend's blog
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. There is some talk that the hull will be transformed into a house
More pics here Freedom and Adventure: 9-2017 Huahine, Wind and Tanda Malaika
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Old 16-09-2017, 14:22   #357
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

Mighty fancy house, for the islands. It could work. And a good way to "recycle" the boat.

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Old 16-09-2017, 14:28   #358
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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Mighty fancy house, for the islands. It could work. And a good way to "recycle" the boat.

Ann
Keep your eye on AirBNB for it
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Old 16-09-2017, 14:35   #359
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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I do not know on what kind of device they were running it, but I am using it all the time here in FrPol on my tablet ( no name dropping here) due to the "plotter features" it offers. I find that very practical for lagoon navigtiion and also passes.

For the rest of time, we use a Netbook at they Nav.station with Open CPN and A GpS puck on USB.
In addition to a poor strategy (late arrival, close to the reef, no second person on watch at the time, two engines running so breakers could not have been heard, and we could go on) poor navigation was the cause of this wreck.

We feel that there is a disturbing trend: navigating by tablet with tablet based apps and Navionics charts, or similar. Almost everyone is doing it and virtually every crash we hear about happened with these kind of charts and a tablet being used, sometimes mounted in a bracket, often on some bodies' lap or in their hand. We get two or three crashes a year here in Mexico. Routes, if used at all, were planned on the tablet. Navionics route planning is primitive at best. iNav-x is better, still not great.

These crashes, particularly Tanda Malaika, were onto a reef or land which is clearly present on the CM93 charts which most people have on their OpenCPN systems, and presumably, present on the Navionics charts. None of the crashes we read about would have occurred had the proper route planning been performed and the yacht been following the planned route.

We need to get the word out:

Proper navigation includes prior route planning on a proper system with a keyboard, preferably at the nav station, and using the best charts available. (part of a navigator's responsibility is to obtain and use the best chart for any given location). After developing the planned route then close inspection, at high zoom levels, is required and corrections made before setting out. Then during the passage the ship's progress along the route must be monitored, preferably by a second person, not the helm's man, and not by referencing a tablet computer in the cockpit.

Navigation is made easy with these tools that everyone uses but it is not sound navigation and it is dangerous and anyone who navigates this way will eventually hit stuff.

Fred & Judy SV Wings, La Cruz Huancaxtle
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Old 16-09-2017, 14:40   #360
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Re: Leopard 46 lost in French Polynesia - stunning rescue pictures

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Keep your eye on AirBNB for it
Hey, it could work, make it seem adventuresome! OMG!

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