Jordan Series Drogue or Heave to?

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

(...)

any boat can start to broach leading to a knockdown.

(...)

True for displacement hulls but a planning one will take off.

Then again taking off before a huge breaker must be hell of adventure once the sails lose grip on the wind ... ;-)

Not recommended for navigation, unless one owns an IMOCA, I think.

b.

[CapnCrunch]

Originally Posted by wingssail

Funny, I think I saw this boat last month or one just like it.

I think the hull and foils would suit heaving-to but the mainsail must be quite small to fit over that cabin (assuming there is a mast and a mainsail) which would affect its contribution to heaving-to and who knows what all the windage from the large cabin and flybridge would do.


I see no reason why the boat (Lancer 36?) should not do this if the main is big enough to provide some drive forward.

She is a Lancer 44' motorsailer with two Perkins 4.236s. Her mast is 52' and previous owner said he had the main sail cut down so that the foot is 6' above the flybridge. I'm guessing the luff is prolly about 42'. She has previously run a furling main and I would like to stay with that but I'm thinking of adding a short boom just for lifting purposes.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

True for displacement hulls but a planning one will take off.

Then again taking off before a huge breaker must be hell of adventure once the sails lose grip on the wind ... ;-)

Not recommended for navigation, unless one owns an IMOCA, I think.

b.

Have you sailed planing hulls in big waves? They absolutely can get knocked down. The bow roots in moving the CLR forward, the stern is pushed to the side, rudder ventilates at high speed, and bam. Same with multihulls. Been there, have the tee shirt.


Fun, but I wouldn't call it safe.

[coastalexplorer]

This thread seems to drifting into more about what would happen without a JSD than with one. while others seems to be unaware of the complete concept. and how to do other things to avoid using one..interesting?

[Seafarer7]

Originally Posted by CapnCrunch

She is a Lancer 44' motorsailer with two Perkins 4.236s. Her mast is 52' and previous owner said he had the main sail cut down so that the foot is 6' above the flybridge. I'm guessing the luff is prolly about 42'. She has previously run a furling main and I would like to stay with that but I'm thinking of adding a short boom just for lifting purposes.

CapnCrunch

You should be able to heave to without the main, using just the self-tending jib and the rudder. Furl away the main completely and furl in the jib to about 30% (depending on wind strength and desired rest angle), sheet it in tight to near amidst ship, point up and turn rudder hard to windward. Your Lancer should then balance between the fall-off pressure from the jib and the turn-to-wind pressure from the rudder, coming to rest some 30-80 degrees off wind .

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by CapnCrunch

She is a Lancer 44' motorsailer with two Perkins 4.236s. Her mast is 52' and previous owner said he had the main sail cut down so that the foot is 6' above the flybridge. I'm guessing the luff is prolly about 42'. She has previously run a furling main and I would like to stay with that but I'm thinking of adding a short boom just for lifting purposes.

If I was in serious weather with your boat I would use one engine in slow ahead and the autopilot to hold a good angle to the waves. Your boat would require some experimentation in strong winds to find out what combination will allow it to heave-to under sail.

Without a mainsail you'd have a disadvantage. When heaving to with main and backed jib the main is trying to drive to boat forward (and the helm turning it into the wind), while the backed jib is holding it back and keeping the bow down.

With no main and the windage of your superstructure there would be little to keep you from just going backward. Maybe the jib would do it. But, like I say, some experimentation in real conditions is needed.

Personally, I'd jog along under power.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Sojourner

Ciao all.... I know I've been posting some dumb questions lately, but we're gearing up for our go-around so they pop into my head.... I did search, but wanted a more simple poll if you will.

I have a moderate displacement 53ft Amel Super Maramu. Defo made for heavier weather, with a sugarscoop narrowish stern. When encountering said weather, I'll have two choices, deploy a JSD (which I'm purchasing soon) or heave to. The SM heaves to well, I know how to hit the sweet spot, so assuming I have searoom, what would you choose: a properly hove to boat or the JSD drogue and running with the waves? I'm thinking if they're equal, the drogue seems safer and less likely to need attention (proper rear chainplates being installed as well with chafe gear) vs balancing the heave-to, avoiding forereaching etc....?

I've heard so many great things about the drogue, but also know that heaving to is the go-to for a boat like mine. All things being equal, which would be better/safer? Or are they six of one, half dozen of the other?

I must have missed this thread when it originated.

Here’s what a 53ft sailboat looks like in 40 knots of wind running on bare poles with the engine running to aid with steering. The boat is moving along with the swell at 8-9 knots, so it only feels like we’re in 30 knots.

I think you can handle it, I wouldn’t bother purchasing a drogue, my wife was having fun. It’s no big deal, and to all the critics and naysayers... yes I used a handheld wind speed indicator to double check the masthead instrument.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HAKLm8vaR2k

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

I must have missed this thread when it originated.

Here’s what a 53ft sailboat looks like in 40 knots of wind running on bare poles with the engine running to aid with steering. The boat is moving along with the swell at 8-9 knots, so it only feels like we’re in 30 knots.

....

How come you didn't just put out a small bit of staysail and sail it. It probably would have been even more comfortable. I'm sure your boat would steer just fine under sail in those conditions.
Not sure the point of your post, are you saying that downwind in 40kts going the direction you want to go is somehow time for heaving to or a drogue? We've been in those conditions plenty of times and haven't ever considered either. It's when tbe wind and much more importantly the seas get much higher or when you aren't going downwind that the other options start to shine.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Paul L

How come you didn't just put out a small bit of staysail and sail it. It probably would have been even more comfortable. I'm sure your boat would steer just fine under sail in those conditions.
Not sure the point of your post, are you saying that downwind in 40kts going the direction you want to go is somehow time for heaving to or a drogue? We've been in those conditions plenty of times and haven't ever considered either. It's when tbe wind and much more importantly the seas get much higher or when you aren't going downwind that the other options start to shine.

Because.... I didn’t feel like it.

[Paul L]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Because.... I didn’t feel like it.

Seasick? 😣😣 Only kidding, that's as legit a reason as any.
You made a point of running the engine for steerage and just didn't seem like it would be at all needed in those conditions.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Seasick? ���� Only kidding, that's as legit a reason as any.
You made a point of running the engine for steerage and just didn't seem like it would be at all needed in those conditions.

We needed to charge the batteries for a couple of hours, so it served dual purpose. But just to keep you happy, here’s another video of us doing what you suggest:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s0HgonCDFxI

[mako]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Here’s what a 53ft sailboat looks like in 40 knots of wind running on bare poles with the engine running to aid with steering. The boat is moving along with the swell at 8-9 knots, so it only feels like we’re in 30 knots.

I love those giant steering wheels that you sailbooter dudes have. What is the diameter of that thing - has to be at least 4 feet?

I’m so jealous. Powerboats get tiny little chrome wheels. The big wood wheel on my previous boat was only about 32 inches (3 turns lock to lock).

My next boat will definitely be fitted with something you only see on old steamships. Maybe I’ll make Kenomac an offer on his