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Old 19-06-2018, 11:34   #16
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

I Have a 41' cat in melbourne FL been thru 8 huricanes at a slip i use 5/8 lines 4 srpings and 4 on each corner then double them total16 aleays remove bimini and jibs anything loose i also remove the dingy the storms are getting worse every year been here 32 years good luck
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Old 19-06-2018, 12:26   #17
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

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Originally Posted by Tingum View Post
Staying on a dock in a major storm is NUTS! If you have the opportunity stuff the boat in the mangroves or get on a secure mooring. The last thing you want to do is be in the middle of a crowd.

UNLESS that marina is a designed hurricane hole as is the marina in which i was berthed for patricia. anchoring or sailing these out over here is insanity.
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Old 19-06-2018, 12:56   #18
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

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Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
That’s insane! Where do you attach 14 1.5” lines?
On those twelve inch cleats.
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Old 19-06-2018, 13:30   #19
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

Imagine, diesel pulled waiting for a new diesel hurricane approaching no mangroves, ride it out....... not nuts ......WELL SEASONED!!!!!! walk a mile with my bare feet.🤪😏😉☺️🍸🍸🍸🍸
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Old 19-06-2018, 14:56   #20
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

How big of a hurricane are you expecting? In a Cat 5, boats secured to docks with heavy and numerous lines first appeared to destroy the docks. Then when everything is floating free, the docks destroy the boats. Mine, at Nanny Cay was lucky. The tied-up boats ripped their docks away from their pilings and anchors. Then the docks began sluicing back and forth in the marina on the storm serge. Three-foot square pieces GRP along with the attached mooring cleats were ripped out of her sides and deck. Now free floating, she got picked up by a serge and deposited with one hull on the bulkhead/sidewalk and the other hull still in the water. She was never holed and stayed dry. Other than the GRP damage and a bent prop, from then on she only receiving minor damage from smaller boats that were still flying back and forth with the wind and the serge. Due to the great work of the people at Nanny Cay and the whole of the BVI, she was back on charter in less that two months.
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Old 19-06-2018, 15:01   #21
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

3/4" diameter nylon 3 strand twist is fine for your size boat. 5/8" for small cleats that can't take a 3/4" line, but these should be new and of high quality. Most importantly, have long leads on your lines and lead them upward on pilings if possible. Remember, you are going to see storm surge and your baot might come up 10 feet or more. Maybe a lot more. Once your lines are tight, something gotta give. Best improvement you could make is more cleats, better cleats, bigger cleats, and good backing for them. I have seen an awful lot of undersize or poorly attached cleats bend, break, or most often, simply pull right off the deck.


A lot of boats suffer damage from floating up on top of a pier and being stuck there when the tide finally goes out. But even more damage from the boat, securely moored, is pulled underwater.



A cleat ripped off the deck can leave a pretty big hole. 12" of hurricane driven rain has a way of finding such holes. Cockpit scuppers clog, and water overflows through all manner of non-openings never before submerged and put to the watertight test. Be sure your batteries are well charged, and capable of keeping your multiple redundant pumps going for the several days you may be kept away from the boat.


Put out lots of fenders. Put out your dinghy. Better to lose the dink than get a 5 foot hole bashed in your boat from another boat that has gone adrift.


Remember, your pier will probably be submerged in a full on, dangerous semicircle strike from a major hurricane. Loose boats will cheerfully sail right over your protective finger pier and pile all over you. Any junk rope you can string from piling top to piling top will help to maybe establish a barrier.


Choice of harbor is important. Our municipal harbor, the outer harbor, sustained probably 90% losses in Katrina. The inner harbor, Orleans Marina, probably lost 10% of boats. Directly adjoining properties, but additional land mass and tall boathouses between the marina and the lake kept wave action down and provided a bit of wind protection. These losses in the inner harbor were mostly from the very high storm tide rather than direct wind damage. Practically all sails on roller furlers were of course destroyed, and anybody foolish enough to leave a dodger or bimini up, lost it. My own boat is a Katrina survivor under the previous owner, with no major damage except to the engine which was partly submerged for a couple of weeks and not ran for a couple of years after.



1.5" diameter would be more suitable for a 100 ton trawler than your boat. I agree, that is overkill. Smaller lines will have more stretch in them. 1.5" lines will require a much bigger cleat than is usually found on a sailboat.


Finally, use figure eights and round turns. Don't half hitch! Your lines will pull tight from underneath and lock themselves down to the cleat! Will require the "rope wrench" to clear them. (pocketknife.) Sure, no big loss, a couple hundred bucks worth of rope, right? The problem is, during the storm, a good samaritan liveaboard neighbor braving the storm by staying aboard might slack your lines for you if needed, maybe. But not if he can't untie them. I NEVER EVER half hitch a mooring line under any circumstances. I would get fired immediately for doing something so idiotic on a ship, so I won't do it on my boat. If water is expected over a dock cleat, I secure the bitter end to the standing part with a piece of duct tape, to prevent the very very rare instance of sloshing moving water somehow undoing all my figure eights and round turns. You DO NOT need to half hitch a mooring line on a cleat and you SHOULD NEVER do so.


Lastly, it doesn't hurt to drop your anchors. Probably won't help. If you are very unlucky, well, maybe it could.


LASH DOWN all hatches etc. The wind can suck them right off the boat and present a very real risk of filling the boat with rain water.


Don't know what else to tell you. Except the best option for the boat is to not have it in the area where the hurricane will make landfall.
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Old 19-06-2018, 15:09   #22
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

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Originally Posted by Ken Z View Post
Really!!!!! how do you secure a1 1/2”line to a cleat let alone two lines to a cleat?...

Exactly.


What some people have been doing (including me) is placing Dyneema loops around the cleats and securing some of the lines to the loops. These can be soft shackles, and they can be covered with webbing to make them fatter where they join other ropes.


I do this at my regular dock. The slip is an odd shape and proper positioning requires landing 3 lines on one cleat. I bring the 3 lines together on a loop, and the loop goes over the cleat. Very easy.


---


Hurricane wind loads are high, without question. But the real advantage of a spider's web is that it controls the surging motion of the boat. Less bouncing = less chafe and less force. It's the bouncing that breaks them.
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Old 19-06-2018, 15:17   #23
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

On my boat (when in Lighthouse Pt and now St Pete). I place the eyesplices on the cleats and tie off to the pilings or dock. Using eyes you can get 2-3 lines on a clear and then a lashing. To make sure they stay put.

Tied up stern-to I have doubled crossed stern lines. Double bow lines and a single spring on each side.

The issue is storm surge. So when a storm approaches I shorten the slings to move her forward in the slip and ease the stern lines to match.

As soon as possible after the storm you MUST check the boat. Often after a storm the water get sucked out so you want to be sure the boat is ok.

14 lines would be double bow 4-lines, double stern 4-lines, double forward springs (if stern to) 4-lines and double aft springs. Doubling the springs that keep you off the dock is a bit over the top.

If you tie up along side —— some folks on the canals illegally tie off to the boats across the canal. Not legal but “some folks” do that.

Regarding chafe- if the line’s cover is chaffed at all- don’t use the line. If you have a chaffe point- i.e. my springs - either wrap the dock line with a sacrificial wrapping line or use some garden hose.

(Knocking wood) this has worked for a good number of hurricane seasons on the east coast and Irma here in St Pete
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Old 19-06-2018, 19:08   #24
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post

What some people have been doing (including me) is placing Dyneema loops around the cleats and securing some of the lines to the loops. These can be soft shackles, and they can be covered with webbing to make them fatter where they join other ropes.

Great idea. I have also made grommets out of 6 strand 1/2" stainless cable for the same purpose but dyneema would be just as strong and not so hard on cleats and stuff.


To make wire grommets, just unlay a piece of wire about 7x the circumference of the size loop required. Re-lay it on itself, using some of the core. When you have gone 6 times around, where the ends meet, tuck one under the other and then tuck both twice more against the lay. Serve with wire. You can also not tuck at all, just cut the ends off to butt up against each other, for a very very small loss in strength, if that is too much trouble. You still have about 1.5x the strength of a piece of the original wire. Remember to serve over the ends of the strand.



Okay, yeah, very salty, but dyneema will be easier.
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Old 20-06-2018, 02:24   #25
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

I wonder if your insurer is using the convention where rope is sized by circumference rather than diameter. In Australia and the UK pulleys are traditionally sized for rope such that, for example, a pulley marked 3" actually uses 1" diameter rope. In more recent times the conventions are not so reliable and rope can be specified by diameter or circumference (depending on the school the supplier went to).


1.5" circumference line would be closer to 1/2" diameter. That seems more like it to me for your situation.



Here is a link from Sailrite on rope size and selection. https://www.sailrite.com/PDF/Rope%20...mendations.pdf


It contains a table showing dock line and anchor line sizes for boats of different length (and is a guide only). Note that in this case the rope is specified as diameter.


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Old 25-06-2018, 09:24   #26
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

I bet the insurers are scrambling to try and figure out whether pleasure boats, especially cats are a worthy risk. Certainly the premiums on the newer cats seem far too low compared to insured values.
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Old 25-06-2018, 09:25   #27
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

No way they mean 1/2".
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Old 25-06-2018, 10:07   #28
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

The key to staying put is to have all lines fitted with snubbers, two feet of chain with shackles to secure to pier cleats, and anti chafing for any chocks or other deck fitting the lines may contact. Snubbers are all important since without the stretch your boat's cleats will simply rip out of the deck.. Its not the wind so much as the up and down surges from wave actions that will rip your boat apart.

Would also advise to always lower the mast(it is on a movable shoe, right?) to keep the boat upright. A 150 mph gust will blow over any multihull otherwise.
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Old 25-06-2018, 14:56   #29
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Re: Hurricane Plan - Dock Lines

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Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
Spiderweb. The general rule is "more is better." I really don't think you can have too many lines securing your boat in a hurricane if you're not hauled.

If you calculate the force on your boat due to windage during a hurricane it's absolutely enormous. Suddenly 1.5" line looks pretty well suited.

We sail a 58 foot Camper and Nicholson. 1.5 inch does not fit any cleat on the boat. 14 lines - yikes! I have lines and many cleats, four anchors but an arbitrary 1.5 inch seems crazy. What we observed from last year's storms is that no prep will save your boat if you are in the direct path. Getting away works. You need only be 50 to 75 miles off the track to reduce the max wind speed from disaster to really uncomfortable. Antigua-no problem. Barbuda-disaster. This is only a half day sail away.

Our hurricane plan is to stay out of the zone. We transited the east coast two years ago and toughed out two hurricanes and made the Salty Dawg rally to the Bitter End brushing the edge of a late season tropical depression. We are now beginning our second hurricane season on the hard at Power Boats in Chaguaramas, Trinidad. High wind is the farthest thing from our minds. What is maddening is that several insurers require we jump through hoops to stay here but are willing to insure if we would just move the boat north of the Fla-Ga line - insane!
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