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Old 07-05-2021, 07:02   #1
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How to tie a line to haws horns

What is the proper and secure way to tie a line to the horns of a haws hole? Unlike a cleat, in which the final turn “locks” the line to the cleat, a turn or two around the horns won’t secure the line. My habit has been to reeve the line on the horns with several figure eights. I’m seeking a better way, one that is faster to untie and securely “locks” the line.
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Old 07-05-2021, 13:58   #2
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

Can you provide a picture of yours? Hawse (with an "e") holes and horns come in many different forms.
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Old 07-05-2021, 14:15   #3
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

One full round turn and two half hitches works on ours, except if the line is too large diameter. For that, I tie a bowline in the line and place it over the whole post. Have also, used just two half hitches. The thing is, if you can get the whole round turn on, you will have control easing out the line, and much less either of the other ways.

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Old 07-05-2021, 14:18   #4
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

Would something like this work, or not enough space?
https://www.instructables.com/Create...ght-rope-line/
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Old 07-05-2021, 14:41   #5
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

Not sure which type of hawse pipe with horns your vessel has but our Sea Scout Ship had types similar to those imaged below on the aft for which we just used standard cleat knots.

Whereas on the bow we had a bollard to connect to from the line that passed through the hawse pipes.

The hawse pipes with horns were convenient as to not having any line taught across the deck.

Reference hawse pipes with horns imaged below.

There are various types of bollards and various methods of tying off to them.

Reference videos of how to ty to a bollard is illustrated below in the YouTube videos.





All the best,

Dan
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Old 07-05-2021, 15:30   #6
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

My experience (on a large DeFever trawler) is that you are better off not relying on them. They can fold in when under load. Maybe those ones were just weak but now I don't trust using them.
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Old 07-05-2021, 16:10   #7
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

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Originally Posted by Thumbs Up View Post
My experience (on a large DeFever trawler) is that you are better off not relying on them. They can fold in when under load. Maybe those ones were just weak but now I don't trust using them.
Yes, with out the compression support of the lateral bar attached to the horns as is typical of a cleat, the hawse pipe horns are inherently more prone to "folding in". They certainly need to be made robustly at the hub and through vertical axis of the horn as it connects to the pipe.

The bollards that do not have the support bar between twin posts are similarly subject to compression deformation, again if they are not made robustly. See image below.
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Old 07-05-2021, 16:25   #8
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

Even big bollards fail due to corrosion and adverse loads.
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Old 08-05-2021, 09:21   #9
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

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Even big bollards fail due to corrosion and adverse loads.
Yes, but. Wouldn't that only happen on ferro-cement boats?
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Old 08-05-2021, 11:28   #10
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

Please... do NOT lock the line, or one day you will find out why you shouldn't do it & have to cut the rope off - & s**t like that always happens when you dont need it to.

If you have to lock the line to moor securely, your rope is too short...

OXXO is going to be as secure as you will ever need - but it does need to be full Os & Xs (round turns & figure eights).
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Old 08-05-2021, 11:30   #11
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

the rope has to cross over itself each time.
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Old 08-05-2021, 16:35   #12
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montanan View Post
Reference videos of how to ty to a bollard is illustrated below in the YouTube videos.
How many bad practices can you spot in the second video.
I got at least 3 major no-nos
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Old 08-05-2021, 16:42   #13
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clivevon View Post
Please... do NOT lock the line, or one day you will find out why you shouldn't do it & have to cut the rope off - & s**t like that always happens when you dont need it to.

If you have to lock the line to moor securely, your rope is too short...

OXXO is going to be as secure as you will ever need - but it does need to be full Os & Xs (round turns & figure eights).
Time for the great "initial O" v "inital "c" debate again?
I agree 100% with Grog. I've seen it happen:

https://www.animatedknots.com/cleat-...knot-dock-line

"No Round Turn: After passing the rope around two horns of the cleat, always cross over and make figure 8 turns afterwards. This is because the Figure 8 Turns lift the rope up against the horns and out of the way of the first turn. Jamming is a risk if the initial turn continues around and under the first horn a second time (making a complete round turn). Now if a towline briefly becomes slack, the initial turn can separate away from the cleat and then clamp down on top of the second turn making it impossible to release the rope while there is load on the towline."

I've also never seen a final lock (weather) hitch jam if done correctly ( not like the one in Montanan's second video)
It's good practice if leaving the boat unatteneded for any length of time.
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Old 09-05-2021, 03:22   #14
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

Quote:
Originally Posted by nichollsjr View Post
What is the proper and secure way to tie a line to the horns of a haws hole? Unlike a cleat, in which the final turn “locks” the line to the cleat, a turn or two around the horns won’t secure the line. My habit has been to reeve the line on the horns with several figure eights. I’m seeking a better way, one that is faster to untie and securely “locks” the line.
If what you describe is the "kevel" sort, where the actual hawsehole has cast horns sticking out either side (there's a picture above somewhere), I find those unsatisfactory because there's no body between the horns for the line to wrap over and create friction against. The best way is to ignore the horns until you can change the hawsehole out for a plain one, and lead the line to a proper cleat or bollard.
I have no cleats in range of my midships hawsehole; instead I tie the dockline to a stout hardwood dowel with a round turn and buntline hitch. The dowel fetches against the hawse and won't pull through, and I adjust the line from ashore. Since I'm never springing off or on with the midships line, it needs not be adjustable or releaseable from onboard.
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Old 09-05-2021, 16:28   #15
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Re: How to tie a line to haws horns

My 42' Kadey Krogen has 8 bronze hawse pipes with horns. I use a normal cleat hitch tie and have no issue with either horn strength or problems removing the 5/8" or 3/4" lines i use. She weighs 44,000 lbs.
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