Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 27-08-2022, 06:28   #46
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Boat: Pearson 386
Posts: 306
Re: How to point higher in waves?

Re: the DanStanford post. First the OP states he/she is new to sailing and thus may not grasp the mostly good things state about what your sails see which is apparent wind. However, it is fundamentally incorrect to say your apparent wind moves aft as the boat speed slows. It is true when sailing on the wind that as seas begin to influence your boat speed, at fixed trim, and heading, the apparent wind cycles as your boat speed slows going up the frontside and increases down the back. As your boat slows going up the front, the apparent wind moves forward not aft and it feels like you are being headed as the boat slows. That is why you need to trim for power going up the front or otherwise bear off a little to keep the sails from luffing, coming over the top as the boat accelerates the apparent move aft and you have the opportunity to gain back the ground gave up as you accerate down the backside.
OneBoatman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2022, 07:48   #47
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Panama
Boat: Antares 44i
Posts: 138
Images: 2
Re: How to point higher in waves?

Don't pay attention to the naysayers on in-mast furling. We have it, and once we learned how to use it properly, actually prefer it to stack pack in terms of adjustability. Your instincts and other comments are correct: the mainsail has too much draft to produce optimal lift. Use the outhaul, but be careful not to pull it in under too much load: you can damage the blocks (don't ask how I know). Ref jib, as mentioned, move the car/lead forward. Ref waves, VMG and comfort beats bashing, especially into current induced chop. Fall off a bit, power up and notice how weather helm improves.
CaptainMarkS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2022, 07:49   #48
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Phuket
Boat: Having a Stealth X 51 built
Posts: 172
Re: How to point higher in waves?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneBoatman View Post
Re: the DanStanford post. First the OP states he/she is new to sailing and thus may not grasp the mostly good things state about what your sails see which is apparent wind. However, it is fundamentally incorrect to say your apparent wind moves aft as the boat speed slows. It is true when sailing on the wind that as seas begin to influence your boat speed, at fixed trim, and heading, the apparent wind cycles as your boat speed slows going up the frontside and increases down the back. As your boat slows going up the front, the apparent wind moves forward not aft and it feels like you are being headed as the boat slows. That is why you need to trim for power going up the front or otherwise bear off a little to keep the sails from luffing, coming over the top as the boat accelerates the apparent move aft and you have the opportunity to gain back the ground gave up as you accerate down the backside.
Errr no. You clearly donít understand what apparent wind is as you have it completely backwards. For the record DanStanford is absolutely correct.
markiobe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2022, 15:49   #49
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 16
Re: How to point higher in waves?

Good suggestion on adjusting jib/main ratio to keep a balanced helm. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneBoatman View Post
Based on your photos you need to flatten your main, and likely also make sure your jib as well, the main is clearly twisting off and the outhaul need to be tightened. Your sails present as trimmed for reaching and simply aren't set to take you higher. Assuming you know the basics of trimming sails and that generally in higher winds and in seas you want to keep them just about as flat as they will fly, if when you center the main traveler the main stalls and you immediately feel weather helm, the sail is not working properly for you it is likely you need to deply a bit more jib or conversely less main to keep a balanced helm. My experience says a bit less main, keep it flat and then focus on setting the right amount of jib to keep the helm balanced.
juststarted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2022, 15:52   #50
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 16
Re: How to point higher in waves?

Yeah, I saw many boats around sailing with the jib or the main alone. Now I think I am gonna to do that to find out what happens.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rossdv8 View Post
Something I had to learn myself, after too many years racing with 'experts', then finding out that cruising sailing is about other things, was that headsail and how it affects the yacht.


Granted, my cruising was only coastal, and I did an awful lot of it in very rough conditions. But once I started sailing ex-racing Quarter Tonners as cruising and live-aboard boats, I learned some weird stuff.


One of the 'weirdest' things I learned was taught me by mt last two yachts. Both designed by Doug Peterson and both of them only 26 feet long, but I've tested this idea on 40 footers.


Sail the yacht for a whole day every now and again using the Jib / Headsail ONLY.
It may be surprising to find just how much work that sail does. And how much closer to the wind it takes you, than you thought. And just how fast you can go, reasonably close to the wind, under headsail alone.


Then try this. Sail the boat for a whole day every now and then, using mainsail alone.
That might also surprise you.


And when you go for your little day trips, head to an anchorage with a bit of room to spare, and see how you go maneuvering to drop and set the anchor without the engine (obviously, have the thing idling so you can test the set).


In the coastal tropics, our sailing years were almost always 20 - 30 knots, with occasional days of stuff all wind and fairly regular days of 25+.

Both of my last two boats (Peterson designed Quarter Tonners) sailed under a single sail, almost as quickly as under two sails, once the wind got up.


What surprised me, was that one sailed like a big dinghy under the main, Powering through whatever she faced, then nice and agile when parking her, either sailing up to a spot to anchor, or sailing her through a crowded anchorage, and up to my mooring buoy, to pick up the float.


OK, I just deleted the rest of what I wrote because I was drivelling on to justify what I'm suggesting.
Seriously, it is well worth finding out which sail your boat is most comfortable sailing with. You need a whole day once in a while using that sail only, to see what the different sail shapes do in various conditions, and you need to do this using each sail for a whole day from time to time to find this out.


Once you understand how 'your sails' work individually on 'your boat' in various conditions, you will be able to work on the two sails as a 'team' again.


Every hull is different. In the old days it was due to small differences in construction. these days that most boats are moldy, it is more often due to boat dynamics. Ballast (where you stow your 'stuff' including anchor chains), how much water is aboard, what batteries you have, and where, and even the number of people aboard and where they are. All you have to do is walk around a 40 footer at the dock and see how she settles into a slightly different position as you move.


Every sail is different. Except maybe racing Mylar. Most others though, stretch a little, or are cut a little differently. What looks pretty good to you, gazing at it from the deck, might look completely different to the wind, passing over it.


Anyway, that's what I learned over the last fifteen years living with two of my last three boats.

The third, I never got the chance to finish rebuilding and put in the water due to failing health, but I would have enjoyed doing the same days of exploring how she sailed with each of the more than a dozen sails that came with her, before venturing out with two sails flying.
juststarted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2022, 18:11   #51
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2022
Posts: 16
Re: How to point higher in waves?

Thanks. Great to hear from someone with the in-mast furling system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Selawry View Post
Don't pay attention to the naysayers on in-mast furling. We have it, and once we learned how to use it properly, actually prefer it to stack pack in terms of adjustability. Your instincts and other comments are correct: the mainsail has too much draft to produce optimal lift. Use the outhaul, but be careful not to pull it in under too much load: you can damage the blocks (don't ask how I know). Ref jib, as mentioned, move the car/lead forward. Ref waves, VMG and comfort beats bashing, especially into current induced chop. Fall off a bit, power up and notice how weather helm improves.
juststarted is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Getting a Capri 22 to point higher? OldFrog75 Seamanship & Boat Handling 8 25-05-2013 18:57
Solar Output in Higher Latitudes GeoPowers Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 6 10-01-2010 20:42
Rogue Waves and Seiche Waves Seaworthy Great Lakes 18 27-11-2007 11:22
Point No Point Lighthouse For Sale TaoJones Atlantic & the Caribbean 10 25-11-2007 07:14

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:27.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.