Heavy weather sailing, your strategy?

[JAFO]

Originally Posted by philiosophy

To borrow the words of Skip Novak " I would deploy it only in anger. I respect that sailing man above most. So if you really want to know about storm tactics...Don't listen to me...Check out Skip Novaks Heavy Weather Sailing on Utube

Whilst I have immense respect for Skip Novak, when he dismissed the JSD out of hand as a viable tactic, yet then went on to admit that he'd never even once tried one himself, he lost a few credibility points in the eyes of not only me, but a considerable number of cruisers.


He'd have done far better to simply admit that he wasn't qualified to hold an opinion on them, and left it at that. Instead, he's potentially caused a lot of newbie cruisers to disregard what is probably one of the most effective heavy weather tools out there, simply because they respect his reputation.


What he did doesn't fall far short of criminal, IMO. At the very least, he should issue a widely publicised retraction.

[Fi2010]

Addendum to the drag device comments.

The Para-anchor, speed-limiting and stopping drogue can all perform well in a storm if they’re properly rigged. The devices work on both monohulls and multihulls. Something you might want to consider is how much weight is required to make the drag device perform better or if there’s extra setup requirements. For example, the JSD requires special chain plate attachments, placing additional holes through the hull. Regular back-plated cleats are fine for para-anchors and speed-limiting drogues.

Another consideration is whether or not your boat can handle a wave strike at the bow or stern. Boat design will factor into this. Canoe stern boats can handle a wave strike at the stern. Beneteau, Jeanneau type sailboats not so much. Most boats in general handle wave strikes better at the bow.

Someone indicated how the Pardeys’ experience was limited to their small sailboat. Actually, the Pardeys’ have delivered countless modern boats. On occasion they’ve successfully tested the para-anchor. Lin is still actively sailing. She recently completed a crossing.

[CassidyNZ]

Originally Posted by philiosophy

First of all Ann is so very correct when she says Catamarans and Mono Hulls are going to have an entirely different experience. That said I can only hope others with Mono Hulls who are trying to learn about Heavy Weather Sailing take your words with somewhat less than a grain of salt. I believe many off shore cruisers make the mistake of disregarding the importance of Heaving To. They don't ever try it, or if they do, do it in very light conditions. We are talking about crossings to and from the Islands from New Zealand. That folks is the some very serious water we are talking about. To say Heaving To is only an option in an unbreaking ocean is to take away the number 1 storm tactic for a Mono Hull. The Larry and Lynn Pardy method starts with Heaving To and as conditions deteriorate adding a Para Anchor. Here is where I may agree with you. Putting out any of the Para, storm Drogue,Jorden Series etc. in breaking conditions is fraught with danger. Even if you were already heaved To which by the way would make conditions on board for more stable and controlled. Doing it in serious weather not having conditions dampened by being Heaved To could easily have disastrous consequences. To borrow the words of Skip Novak " I would deploy it only in anger. I respect that sailing man above most. So if you really want to know about storm tactics...Don't listen to me...Check out Skip Novaks Heavy Weather Sailing on Utube

It’s been a long time since I read anything by the Pardys but I recall that their accounts of lying to a parachute in strong weather was not so much about heaving to as it was about lying a-hull which is a different thing. I also recall that the chute was rigged from the bow with a bridle to hold the bow 30 (or so) degrees off the wind. Could be wrong, as I say, it’s been a long time.

In addition, the Pardys sailed a small, heavy, long keeled boat and not a Tupperware version endemic to cruising these days. Further, I’m reasonably sure they never did any of that amongst 35 - 40ft breaking seas.

Since I have been in those conditions and learned quite a lot from my experience, I stand by my opinion that heaving to amongst large breaking waves is not a clever option.

So while I don’t really have a concern for how big or small the grains of salt you wish to take are, I’m sure your extensive off-shore heavy-weather experience will grace this thread and offer those lucky enough to not being caught in serious weather yet, something other than second-hand rhetoric.

[Fransw]

Originally Posted by finefurn

My Strategy is I DON'T

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by Oceanairre

Downside is that the constant hammering of the following seas astern blew water up the intakes and we lost the engine, having to be towed into St George’s upon arrival.

Really? Is this common? Does anyone have similar experiences? Do you recall if this was due to an insufficient discharge loop above the waterline or if perhaps someone just flooded the engine?

[fxykty]

Just watched the start of The Race. 4x 30m double-handed foiling trimarans. Not sure how much wind, but double reefed mains and no headsails as they headed out into the Bay of Biscay. So maybe our Outremer reefing guide is right to say no headsail above 50 knots. Hmmm. Our mast is a fair way forward, so should be fine. Still want to make each of our reefs deeper though. And downwind would prefer to have a scrap of headsail out rather than a mainsail. At some point the wind and waves just make going upwind too dangerous.

Still want a smaller headsail we can use 35 knots plus, probably on an inner forestay on a furler. That would avoid the ugly 50% furled sail shape for upwind.

We’ll rely on our JSD (still under construction, have to install the 156 cones, sigh) in ultimate conditions. When less than that, not sure whether we have a gap between bare poles or scrap of jib yet still too fast for the waves, but not yet so bad that we need to switch to survival. Perhaps a single element drogue like the Shark? Alternatively I’d love to get hold of a Galerider. What will best prevent peak surfs yet still allow a reasonable average speed of 6-7 knots in big seas?

[Chotu]

Question:. Why not an aggressive JSD or slightly slipping sea anchor and put the bows into the oncoming seas if breaking waves?

Assuming boards and rudders pulled up in this case.


Also, I agree with the scrap of headsail when downwind. Much better to be able to reef on a continuous spectrum. Prefer a main that does the same but you don't see much of that.

[Fi2010]

Originally Posted by fxykty

We’ll rely on our JSD (still under construction, have to install the 156 cones, sigh) in ultimate conditions. When less than that, not sure whether we have a gap between bare poles or scrap of jib yet still too fast for the waves, but not yet so bad that we need to switch to survival. Perhaps a single element drogue like the Shark? Alternatively I’d love to get hold of a Galerider. What will best prevent peak surfs yet still allow a reasonable average speed of 6-7 knots in big seas?

Why not choose the most popular para-anchor and speed-limiting drogue purchased by the US Coast Guard and the US Navy? After all, they understand how to handle extreme weather using these devices.

You're correct, the Shark and Galerider drogues should still allow a reasonable average speed. You might consider adding approximately 10 lbs. of weight to increase performance.

[MicHughV]

Like others on this thread the worst weather I ever experienced was leaving Bermuda, probably 3 days out.

I could not, to this day, say what caused this weather event (The Bermuda Triangle...dum dum....dum dum...maybe)...but we had sustained winds in the 60 knot range, with seas in the 15-20' range, not breaking, but crests being blown off.

We tried all the usual tricks, heaving to, laying a hull, streaming an anchor/fender combination, a line in a bight, but none of these worked for us.

In the end, we took the storm jib from the boat and bundled this up and tied it to a long...150' plus nylon rode and streamed it off the stern to act as a home made, spur of the moment drogue. We did ( briefly) consider streaming this from the bow, but decided that having some steerage way would serve us better.

This had the ability to keep us sliding down waves at 2-4 knots under bare poles, affording us some steerage way, but not too much speed. Though waves occasionally climbed up the transom and sometimes tried to slew us around, by and large, we were reasonably comfortable. There were times the towing rode was bar tout and I was glad to have a steel hull under me.

During the day, we could see the waves, but at night, we had to listen for them. In addition to the wind and waves, we had to deal with blinding rain and had to resort to wearing dive masks.

Fortunately, we had the sea room as we were blown off course by well over a 100 miles. After about 24 hours, this weather system passed, but it took another 12 hours or so for the seas to settle down again sufficiently to sail again.

Another sailboat that had left with us, did not stream anything and was spreaders in the water on several occasion (we heard later)

Were I ever to be in this situation again, I would likely opt to do the same thing again...ie, try to slow, but not stop, the forward motion of the boat.

[MicHughV]

At Ann's request....boat was a steel fin-keeled Roberts 38 ketch displacing about 20,000 lbs, a draft of about 6'3" and had a skeg hung rudder and was notably well behaved under most any conditions.

We were only two aboard. Though we had both a wind vane assisted steering and electric autopilot. Steering (such as that it was) was only possible by hand as "anticipation" was a key factor in determining which way to turn. It was tiring exhaustive work, but having no other course off action available to us, we just hunkered down and split steering duties as best we could manage.

Trip was made in early summer....in fact, we had originally thought we might be experiencing the birth of a hurricane, as this inclement weather did not spring on us all of a sudden, but rather got worse with each passing day, but communications with shoreside weather guru's did not support this and neither could they explain the weather phenomena we were experiencing.
As a side note, I have done the Bermuda trip three times, and every time have had to deal with adverse weather conditions, either going there or leaving from there, though not as severe as that particular trip.

Sumptin' about 'dat Bermuda Triangle....I tell ya :-)

In over 40 years afloat, that was the worse weather I've ever had to deal with. On that particular day I was glad to be on a steel boat with welded on cleats as the load on our drogue was substantial. Had I been on a fiberglass boat I would likely have distributed the drogue line to as many cleats/winches as was practical.

I recognize that different boats will handle adverse weather differently, so finding that "sweet spot" is very much dependent on the boat and the skipper's sailing prowess.
For me, personally, trying to maintain some slow steerage way was the winning ticket.