Heavy weather sailing, your strategy?

[GBR134]

On reading this I'm not sure how 'typical' my one experience of 50+ knots is. I was guest crew on a Moody 42 (centre cockpit Mono) on a delivery trip from Madeira to the Straits of Gibraltar, By the time the wind reached 55kts we had reefed (roller main and jib) to handkerchiefs front and aft and were still making hull speed on a broad reach. The seas semed enormous and were foaming all round us but not breaking over the boat. All seemed pretty edge of control stuff to me. The professional skipper didn't seem in the least concerned barely coming on deck. I (primarily a dinghy sailor) reported that I was only just hanging onto control. The skipper took one look round and ordered the remaining sails stowed and we just lay (laid?) a hull. I'd never tried it before and still remember how calm everything seemed. We spent 48 hours just drifting downwind in 60+ kts and surrounded by mountainous white bearded waves but none broke clear over the boat. For the middle of Biscay it seemed almost anticlimactic.

[SteveSadler]

I'm hearing a lot of unproven speculation here. Personally I read everything I can find of sailing stories and techniques. I've found Fatty Goodlanders books to be the most comprehensive of these techniques and the reasons we would use them. After circumnavigating 3xs and cruising for 40 years, not only does he have experience in such conditions but is good at explaining them. For a short summary, heave to until the seas are too big, then run drouges to prevent surfing and the possibility of pitchpoling.
Cats and monos are both most most vulnerable to capsizing from pitchpoling, but laying a hull can also cause it.

[Seacucumber]

Originally Posted by Shrew

The best option for a catamaran, IMHO would be: bare poles, downwind, dragging a drogue.

Completely agree! Experienced high sea mostly following, 50kt wind off Oregon. Set the autopilot and windvane. Some beam on and pooped once. If it had become worse we would have thrown out the drogue.

[Stress Recess]

A great book that addressed nearly every situation is, HEAVY WEATHER SAILING by K. Adlard Coles

[Breaking Waves]

Originally Posted by Stress Recess

A great book that addressed nearly every situation is, HEAVY WEATHER SAILING by K. Adlard Coles

and personally I think the earlier editions (the true Coles written ones) did it much better than the later ones (after bruce rewrote it).

Coles managed to actually give you a feel from his writing what it was like to be there in a storm making decisions and handling the gear. That is very hard to do in writing and it was a spectacular achievement. And I think very important, because people's first time in 50kts is usually shocking. They don't expect it to be so fierce at all, are not prepared for it.

Bruce updated the technical aspects but in the process washed out the feeling and sense of being there. You can get technique from other sources, but Coles was unique in that sense of being there.

[NavPak ECS]

I don't want to dilute or dispute anything said, just adding my 2 cents:

I like to use dedicated storm sails, and I have 2 sizes: small and smaller. My boat is a 24' gaff rigged sloop, with a bow spirit, topmast and yardarm. The hull is a traditional long keel with outboard rudder. I have weathered gales, going upwind and downwind.

NZ to New Caledonia, I was going downwind (running reach), sustained wind 45knot, gusting to 55kn. That seemed like 6 or 8 days; I didn't know a gale could last that long. Maybe it lasted because I was going with it. Anyway, I used the smallest trysail and the smallest jib. During the height of it, I took down the trysail and was still going full speed under the storm jib. I set the storm jib from the end of the bow spirit, giving it max lee helm to prevent broaching.

Going upwind, I weathered a gale going around the Cape of Good Hope. In this situation, you need to hold your position, without losing any ground. For this I used the larger trysail, and the smaller storm jib, and just sailed close hauled. The gales around the Cape popup like Whack-A-Moles, but they go by fast if you hold your position.

In all cases the gaff mainsail is tightly furled and tied down to the boom gallows. The trysail goes up on the Throat Halyard, loose footed.

I have a sea anchor, but I don't use it in rough weather. If I stream it off the bow in a gale, the boat will lay broadside to the weather, because the windage of the rig is forward. If I stream it aft, I get breaking waves in the cockpit.

[Morgali]

I don't have sailing experience in it, but I worked in the Bering Sea doing commercial crabbing and fishing for salmon.

If it were me, in a single hull, it would be under motor into the waves with something like a parachute behind dragging to keep us bow into the waves.

For what it's worth, I think I've seen some of the biggest seas on Earth. We were working in 30 foot swells

[wingssail]

I agree with Ann Cate that the advice might be different considering the type of boat you are sailing.

For us, in a 43' fin keel monohull, we find that sailing slowly upwind is the easiest. We reduce sail to the minimum, set the windvane to a close hauled course, or slightly above, and slowly jog to weather. If the boat is not proceeding, we start the engine and put it into gear. The idea is to go into the waves at an angle, at very slow speed. This has been good to over 50 and big, short period, seas.

If this isn't working we heave to.

We've never experienced conditions when this was not working for us.

For the multihull, I am not sure what will work the best, but I'd try to keep some headway into the waves, at an angle. The sea room downwind has to be paid attention to.

I understand that you need to have a plan, but honestly, stop obsessing about the perfect storm. Spend more time practicing sailing in the conditions you are more likely to experience.

You are unlikely to encounter those 60++ knot storms that you are very much worried about and you are more likely to have to sail in 35-40 knots.

Learn to do that.

[thataway41]

Survival conditions one time in several hundred thousand open ocean miles; May 1983, Bermuda to Azores. Boat: LOA 62' LWL about 49', heavy displacement, double ended at waterline, wineglass high transom. Sailed down wind at about 150* off, wind direction storm staysail about 120 Sq feet, bare poles, and engine ticking over at 1000 RPM (to give water always moving over the rudder.) Had series drogue but did not deploy.

Wind was in excess of 65 knots (aerometer pegged)--and seas 45' (estimated and later confirmed.) Waves breaking and tops broke over boat multiple times . As noted above by others, we. had multiple leaks in hatches, and water aboard into main lower saloon and pilot house. Well over 45* rolls. Lower spreaders in the water several times. Spreader lashing wires were displaced, and spreaders were pushed upward. (Lines were passed over them, and pulled down to stabilize the rig.). Damage to bow sprit grating, and bow pulpit rails.

My own assessment at the time, was that heaving too would have been dangerous, and resulted in roll over. Para anchor would have sustained severe damage to boat. The series drogue would have been deployed if the boat was out of control, or in danger of pitch poling. I didn't feel that was a danger. Not a pleasant situation to be in.

[cblurton]

Heavy Weather Sailing, 7th Edition, Peter BruceOPEN

[frank wood]

Hi, My experiences in a 45 ft trimaran Triple Jack crossing North Atlantic west to East was as follows,As the wind increased to 35 . 40 knots down wind steering by hand and doing 15 to 20 knots under bare poles in big seas. The boat was out of control and felt that it could capsize..We had to slow the boat down so we used our one inch dia.anchor rope of 300 feet tied it to port side winch the other end to starboard winch in a bight and slowly let it out until the boat slowed to 8 to 10 knots..The difference was unbelievable.Although we took some swells into the cockpit the boat was under control and felt very safe..We could control our speed by letting in and out various lengths of rope and the force on the winches was unbelievable strong..We then could let the auto pilot take over and get some sleep..

[philiosophy]

First of all make sure your rig is sound. Chain plates and stays. Loose one of those and you are in way serious trouble. Offshore not Coastal Cruisers have heavier rig and more of it. There is a reason. The forces put on the rig of a Cat will be much greater than a Mono hull
.

[philiosophy]

Originally Posted by CassidyNZ

Have only been in one serious weather event in a new-to-me boat that was unprepared for the weather. But once is enough and the lessons I learned endure.

Having no storm sails on board, we “sailed” under bare poles at hull speed (about 9kn). We were really kind of directionless, the boat going downwind and seemingly unable to hold a desired course. I believe but don’t actually know (not keen on testing the theory) that sailing with storm sails and a drogue to control boatspeed would be preferable to bare poles simply for the steering control.

Heaving to is only an option in seas that are not breaking. Doing so in breaking seas will see not only seas breaking, your boat will too. A 35ft breaking swell will generate 10ft of rolling white water. Picture that on your local beach and think how your boat will react. Answer? Not well.





Surfing down waves, angled or not, is an uncontrolled adventure made much more exciting at night (conditions motivating this discussion will see you in pitch black darkness) and I personally would do just about anything to prevent surfing on waves of unknown size/period/steepness.

The above scenarios are not speculation - personal experience.

There are conflicting opinions on parachutes flattening seas. One (Pardeys) says it will cause a slick that flattens seas, the other says that a parachute “buried” under an approaching sea acts like a mini reef and causes a breaking wave. I’m not ready to test either eventuality - will never own a parachute. Personal preference, not a recommendation.

First of all Ann is so very correct when she says Catamarans and Mono Hulls are going to have an entirely different experience. That said I can only hope others with Mono Hulls who are trying to learn about Heavy Weather Sailing take your words with somewhat less than a grain of salt. I believe many off shore cruisers make the mistake of disregarding the importance of Heaving To. They don't ever try it, or if they do, do it in very light conditions. We are talking about crossings to and from the Islands from New Zealand. That folks is the some very serious water we are talking about. To say Heaving To is only an option in an unbreaking ocean is to take away the number 1 storm tactic for a Mono Hull. The Larry and Lynn Pardy method starts with Heaving To and as conditions deteriorate adding a Para Anchor. Here is where I may agree with you. Putting out any of the Para, storm Drogue,Jorden Series etc. in breaking conditions is fraught with danger. Even if you were already heaved To which by the way would make conditions on board for more stable and controlled. Doing it in serious weather not having conditions dampened by being Heaved To could easily have disastrous consequences. To borrow the words of Skip Novak " I would deploy it only in anger. I respect that sailing man above most. So if you really want to know about storm tactics...Don't listen to me...Check out Skip Novaks Heavy Weather Sailing on Utube

[fxykty]

Originally Posted by philiosophy

First of all Ann is so very correct when she says Catamarans and Mono Hulls are going to have an entirely different experience. That said I can only hope others with Mono Hulls who are trying to learn about Heavy Weather Sailing take your words with somewhat less than a grain of salt. I believe many off shore cruisers make the mistake of disregarding the importance of Heaving To. They don't ever try it, or if they do, do it in very light conditions. We are talking about crossings to and from the Islands from New Zealand. That folks is the some very serious water we are talking about. To say Heaving To is only an option in an unbreaking ocean is to take away the number 1 storm tactic for a Mono Hull. The Larry and Lynn Pardy method starts with Heaving To and as conditions deteriorate adding a Para Anchor. Here is where I may agree with you. Putting out any of the Para, storm Drogue,Jorden Series etc. in breaking conditions is fraught with danger. Even if you were already heaved To which by the way would make conditions on board for more stable and controlled. Doing it in serious weather not having conditions dampened by being Heaved To could easily have disastrous consequences. To borrow the words of Skip Novak " I would deploy it only in anger. I respect that sailing man above most. So if you really want to know about storm tactics...Don't listen to me...Check out Skip Novaks Heavy Weather Sailing on Utube

The Pardys sail(ed) a very heavy and relatively small boat that has virtually nothing in common with more modern and much more common designs. Their experience works for their boat. I don’t believe heaving to is a reasonable technique in storm conditions for modern design with shallow forefoot and wide stern. Wingsail describes sailing and fore reaching under jib alone - that’s what I’ve done in 40-50 foot IOR designs when nailed by 40+ knots of southerly when approaching Bass Straight during Sydney - Hobart races. Heaving to is NOT a universal solution for extreme weather.

One time (1998) once the breaking waves became continuous and risked punching through the cabin sides (ports on windward side were showing cracks around them) we turned on the engine, dropped the jib and picked a spot to turn around. Then we ran like hell dragging our anchor and rode behind us under bare poles for Eden Bay. Required continuous hand steering to prevent broaching in the breaking water at speeds well over hull speed. A JSD would have made things so much better.

Now I’m in a cruising multihull. Heaving to is not an option - too much windage in the bows means too much mainsail, even with full helm, to keep the boat from falling off and gaining speed. We yaw too much at anchor to consider a parachute anchor off the bow, so the only thing left for extreme conditions is a JSD.

Pre-rigged so that it can be set from the cockpit is a basic requirement for any drogue or sea anchor. At some point you will need to switch from active (survival sailing) to passive (boat survival) techniques. Your solution for passive techniques must be pre-rigged and able to be set from your cockpit without any deck exposure.

[merrydolphin]

I have very little multi experience but have put 10’s of thousands of miles on mono’s. While caught in sustained 40-45 gusting higher off of Pacific Mexico and short handed hove to with KP-44 mono. As a solid heavy deep keeled boat we rode quite well this way after fiddling around with sail trim and getting slick to more or less behave. Going down wind was wrong direction and we didn’t have a parachute sea anchor. Put out parachute ( 24ft para.)in similar conditions and reasons with my Cal 2-46. We were really exhausted with just wife and I as crew bashing for days’. After figuring out that we needed more rode, we put out a total of about 600 feet and really did well. No damage and “relatively speaking” as restful as could be expected. No shock loading was experienced with this longer rode. We used a partial trip line. As she motored quite well we didn’t have too much trouble with retrieving after about a day and a half. We did adjust for chafe every few hours. We more or less stayed bow on. Very little drift, mostly current. Plenty of rode is important. I think some people have a bad experience because they don”t put out enough.