Heaving-to myths.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Huh??? Sure sounds like a speed limiting drogue to me. 1-3 knots is surely a reduced speed and not stopped!

A parachute anchor deployed from the bow might well be called a stopping device... one does not want to be making any sternway under such conditions.

Jim

Think about it some more.


People deploy a JSD when they wish to nearly stop, never surf, and survive a storm.


Delivery captains deploy a Sea Brake when they want to calm the ride, take some load off the autopilot, and still get where they are going. You don't need to be in danger to deploy a drogue.

If you want to get technical, you still make sternway with a chute, just less, perhaps 1-2 knots. This is one reason a chute from the bow does not work so well with many boats; the keel can still force them at an angle and the rudders can still be damaged. Chute work better for cats because they can eithr lift or have smaller keels.

Deploying and recovering a JSD is an ordeal, not taken lightly. Deploying and recovering a Seabrake is an modest 10 minute task. I've tested many brands, many times in near gale conditions.



Quite different in purpose and use.

[Marc S]

Originally Posted by JeffDPT

I heave-to often. Pearson 34. Backwind a tight foresail, release the mainsheet, lock helm to offset the foresail. Lunch, a break to change clothes, or a stop to use the head. Some adjustments to helm and main might be necessary. Jib and Genoa act different too. Individual to boat

My experience is similar. My C&C 110 heaves to well even with 135% genoa (although, not in truly extreme conditions when I wouldn't be flying that much sail anyway). It gives me time to reef the main, a process that works well. Yes, the shroud takes a lot of stress, but if only heaving to in order to reef the main, it's for a pretty short time.

[TabbyCat]

It works exactly like that ""All you have to do is tack the boat without releasing the jib sheet and voila with a few adjustments to the mainsail and rudder you are hove to for heavy weather" on our MC41 catamaran. But then we have a self tacking jib with the sheets lead inside, they don't come anywhere near the shrouds.

[StoneCrab]

It is hard to parse words to get the exact picture of what some of these posts are saying but in general, if you are backwinding the jib and it is laying on the shrouds, you have too much job out.

Assuming that you are doing this in heavy weather or to take a break, reduce your sails, and balance them. They loads shouldn't be high at all if you are doing it right. You want the boat stopped. It's motion should be a gentile sawing with a downwind drift.

The backwinded jib keeps the boat from heading up. The tiller position keeps it from falling off. When you have both balanced the boat goes sideways downwind like a leaf falling from a tree.

You only want enough sail up to prevent wild rocking. I do it all the time when I need to take a break or look at something. It takes some experimenting to find the boat's balance.

[rgranger]

On my boat the jib sheet runs inside the shrouds. I have no problem hove-to. It is exactly as the myth proclaims.

[Godshalk]

I heaved to for 24 hours in the Atlantic with storm staysail and trysail. The sheet did lie against the shroud, which is rod, with no visible chafe. 1x19 might have a different result.

[Bill_Giles]

If we are beating then a period hove to is a welcome break for a meal and a visit to the heads. Never really noticed any worrying chafe on the Genoa sheets. One does not lose much time or or distance for say a 20 minute spell.

[MJH]

Originally Posted by Journeyman

All the advice on heaving-to tends to read:

"All you have to do is tack the boat without releasing the jib sheet and voila with a few adjustments to the mainsail and rudder you are hove to for heavy weather".

That is patently NOT true.

Doing that puts a huge point load on the upper shroud where the sheet has to stretch across it to the clew of the now back-winded jib.

That point load would be very dangerous in heavy weather to the rig. And not desirable in moderate conditions.

I can only conclude this heaving-to advice comes from those that don't actually do it. Or purposely leave out a bunch of other complicated steps that are necessary to accomplish it.

When we tried it recently on our Valiant Esprit 37 with a partially reefed 110% jib, I felt like the entire mast could come down with the jib sheet stretched bar tight high against the upper shroud. And even if you ignored that eventuality, the shroud would most likely saw through the sheet due to chafe riding out weather.

The only means to heave to must involve carefully running a second sheet (on a bucking, rolling, awash deck) inside the shrouds adjusting the jib sheet car accordingly, while at the same time trying to keep what is now two sheets on a flogging clew from whipping themselves furiously into macrame knot.

And to get going again you would have to laboriously undo this ad hoc solution of multiple sheets.

Comments? Better advice?

Thanks,
Journeyman

Returning from Hawaii we got caught in a northerly gale off the Washington coast (Graveyard of the Pacific). I gave the order to heave-to after a wave had pooped the boat disabling the windvane. Heading east (fully reefed main plus staysail) toward the Strait of Juan de Fuca with the gale from the north, the boat would not tack to get the staysail onto the port side. One of the crew said "Do a starboard 360" and I thought the idea crazy but the others agreed. With perfect timing the staysail was locked into place on the port side as we swung through the 360 and then the rudder tied in position as well. We stayed hove-to for 30 hours drifting at 2-3K toward the Strait entrance with one man on two hour AIS watch for shipping as the other three crew rested. I must say the ride was very stable and convinced me that I had made the correct boat choice for myself; I love my staysail and its custom boom-free rigging...thank you Carol Hasse.

~ ~ _/) ~ ~ MJH

[sailorladd]

I have never had a problem heaving to, and I have employed this life saving tactic more times than I can ever recall.

I have a home built 31 footer which is cutter rigged with a six foot wooden bowsprit and a staysail, tethered to a boom belayed with a tube traveller horse. The times that I needed to hove to, was during heavy weather or arriving at a strange port (one I was not familiar with) in the night and needing to kill time I would hove to, and sleep...

The heavy weather necessity to heave to, normally had me drop my already maximum reefed main, and to tack without releasing it's present jib sheeting. My staysail can be used or my jib, depending on the circumstances. The jib is nowhere near a 100% as it is set on the bowsprit but as a working jib it is not anywhere near the size of a genoa, which I have different sizes for different weather. This working jib suffices to keep her bow from coming about, with little force on the rigging.

I get your point about the larger headsail putting a lot of strain on the weather shroud and wear and tear chafe etc, but quite frankly if a small(er) jib is used it is not a serious issue, I'd calculate that the pros outway the cons when one gets the amount of benefit from hoving to.

[swordds]

My boat, an Alberg 30, heaves-to nicely with no jib and just a double reefed mainsail and the tiller lashed slightly to leeward. It fore reaches at about 1 knot or a little less but that is generally not a bad thing and can often be useful plus no jib and a double reefed mainsail is my go-to setup for heavy weather sailing. I have not been caught out in greater than Force 7 winds though.

[john manning]

I hove to regularly when offshore. I started doing this with my current yacht a Prout Escale. This yacht will hove to without any effort and with any combination of sails and regardless of where the rudder is. Its takes a bit of effort to get the yacht to tack right across the wind instead of heaving to.

My previous yacht a Roberts PCF40 could, with a lot of effort, be got to hove to, but it never stayed there. A sea anchor was the only reliable way to stop at sea.

[swordds]

My bad, if the definition of hove-to is dead in the water then I am not hove-to. I will try adding a small amount of unfurled jib to see if I can stop the fore reaching. Thanks for the advice!

[Cynara]

In our cutter heaving to was easy. Just under reefed main and staysail.

The are books how to do it in different types of books and rigs. Read up and try the suggestions, not all suggestions will work for everybody.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Think about it some more.


People deploy a JSD when they wish to nearly stop, never surf, and survive a storm.

Well, that sounds like slowing, not stopping, does it not? Perhaps this is a language problem, but to me stopping means no forward progress, not 1-3 knots.


Delivery captains deploy a Sea Brake when they want to calm the ride, take some load off the autopilot, and still get where they are going. You don't need to be in danger to deploy a drogue.

This is certainly true, but we were discussing storm survival conditions in the post to which I responded with the JSD suggestion.


If you want to get technical, you still make sternway with a chute, just less, perhaps 1-2 knots. This is one reason a chute from the bow does not work so well with many boats; the keel can still force them at an angle and the rudders can still be damaged. Chute work better for cats because they can eithr lift or have smaller keels.

I must say that the idea of dragging an appropriately sized chute backwards at 2 knots is pretty hard to believe. The rudder loads from that would be horrific!

Deploying and recovering a JSD is an ordeal, not taken lightly. Deploying and recovering a Seabrake is an modest 10 minute task. I've tested many brands, many times in near gale conditions.

No argument here, but again not the subject under discussion.



Quite different in purpose and use.

Words here to satisfy the software!!

Jim

[opusnz]

If you want to drive against strong winds, and big waves, a tiny jib is a wonderful thing but for heaving too, I think they are over rated. I have hove-to many times while offshore and never used a jib. A reefed main is all I need. This has also been my experience on other boats.

Every boat is different but on mine (long fin keel with big skeg), if I backwind the main too much, I lose too much forward drive, the boat stalls and pivots back on the skeg and the bow falls off too much. But if I keep the boom set more to the center so the main drives a bit, and adjust it properly along with the rudder for the wind strength, the boat will jog along slowly pointing into the waves. In my experience, I will end up going about 7 to 10 miles in 24 hours. This setup will work in almost any wind of 25 knots or above. The worst weather I have had while hove-to is about 45 knots and 8 to 10 meter seas but I don't see why it wouldn't work in more.