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Old 05-12-2022, 01:47   #16
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

Storm jib on the inner fore stay with windward genoa sheet run inside the shrouds and deep reefed main sheeted into the middle with wheel fixed to windward. Cutter rig is good for it too if you have a furled inner staysail.
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Old 05-12-2022, 03:18   #17
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

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Originally Posted by Journeyman View Post
Boat is a Bob Perry design 1979 Valiant Esprit 37 sloop I have sailed for 40 years.

Still getting to know it I guess.

My 110% genoa as well as all other head sails definitely sheet outside all shrouds.

That inner stay is just for a storm jib (maybe). I sail it as a sloop and do not want to mess with a staysail. So my question is all about the lead to the 110% genoa clew for heaving-to.

I have a hard time believing it is "seaman-like" to heave to with a big side load on the top shroud 4 feet above the deck.

Next time I will try heaving-to with just the main. But note that is is an IOR high aspect mainsail as was the rage back then. Do you think that will make it harder or easier to heave-to with just the main?
With that mainsial putting the center of effort so far forward, I doub't you'll heavo-to easy with just it. But to expect a boat to heave-to with a tiny main and a huge headsail is like putting go-kart brakes on a truck: it's just not gonna work. Why not return to the designer's sail plan? A staysail is the right sail to balance that silly main--it was drawn in for a reason.
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Old 05-12-2022, 05:01   #18
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

Interesting topic.
Heaving too, is not something one does a lot off, basically means just parking the boat in one spot, more or less.
On my first boat, I have found " heaving too" under just a tightly sheeted reefed main and the wheel one or two spokes to weather to work just fine. Mind you that boat was a ketch. Once stopped, the boat was docile as a lamb, much to my surprise, even though the wind and waves were up.
I recognize that every boat is different, so some experimentation might provide a solution.
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Old 05-12-2022, 06:29   #19
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

Some are definitely better than others, but all have their own foibles/preferences; you'll never know for sure until you heave to for real, but practicing in F4/5 will give you a good idea as to what will and won't work. Our Challenger could be made to almost stand still using 3x reefed main and a scrap of headsail, but gave a far more comfortable motion fore-reaching at about 1 knot with just the headsail out - exactly how much dictated by the conditions - we once sailed almost half the distance from Sicily to Sardinia hove to like that.
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Old 05-12-2022, 07:41   #20
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

I'm not a fan of a sea anchor, but have gone to bare poles and streamed a drogue from the stern with some success. If you have some searoom, another option to put in your arsenal of tricks.
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Old 05-12-2022, 10:13   #21
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

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Interesting topic.
Heaving too, is not something one does a lot off, basically means just parking the boat in one spot, more or less.
On my first boat, I have found " heaving too" under just a tightly sheeted reefed main and the wheel one or two spokes to weather to work just fine. Mind you that boat was a ketch. Once stopped, the boat was docile as a lamb, much to my surprise, even though the wind and waves were up.
I recognize that every boat is different, so some experimentation might provide a solution.
Since I exclusively coastal cruise I have never hove to for heavy weather although I carried a storm jib around on my previous boat for about 27 years.

However as a single hander I have hove to a number of times when the winds became light and only rolly anchorages were available or when I arrived at a starting point for a passage through daylight-only sections of a voyage during the night.

I generally require at least 5 miles or so of clear sea room all around and more to windward in the direction the boat tends to drift and set an alarm to wake me at intervals to check how the boat is travelling.
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Old 05-12-2022, 11:30   #22
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

I heave to less than frequently, but more than occasionally. My jib is a 110, but when I'm hove to, it is usually furled quite a bit, so mostly just the jib sheet barely crosses the shroud. I almost always have the deep 2nd reef in the main. Also, I move my jib car forward.

If I am hove to for a while, I will, put a piece of hose over the jib sheet where it crossed the shroud and keep an eye on it. I have thought about putting some pvc pipe over the shroud, as well.
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Old 05-12-2022, 11:41   #23
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

Also keep in mind when you would be heaving to and for what purpose. Heaving to so you can fix lunch and heaving to in anger are two very different things with different stresses on the boat and rig.

I agree with the OP and would not let my sheet ride across the stay in rough/heavy conditions. If not slotted toe rail is available maybe a well supported mid ship cleat could be used to redirect the sheet for the purpose of heaving to.


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Old 05-12-2022, 16:39   #24
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

Journeyman:

Ann Cate has given you the answer in post 15. :-)

"Heaving to" is a hangover from days of yore when boats were rigged entirely differently. Back then - in my distant youth - respectable sailboats were driven by their mainsls, and headsls, while they did give some drive, were really there to balance the helm. They were therefore quite small. A "yankee", for instance, set from the end of a long sprit to the hounds, had a very long moment arm. Therefore the proper lead for the sheet brought it to the rail at or a little forward of the shrouds.

The "advice" you often see given, unmodified, to skippers of modern boats is the age old one that was appropriate for antique cutters and sloops, and to some degree to schooners and galeases: "Go about, but don't bring the headsl over". Works just fine on antiquities, but in modern boats what happens is precisely what you describe. The 150% roller furling genoa militates against learning to heave to because you cannot just "roll it in" and come about expecting your modern boat to replicate the behaviour of your great-grandfather's boat, particularly not if that boat was rigged as a hooker.

Now here, for your delectation, is a clip of a boat - a hooker - carrying a rig that WILL heave to very nicely:




Ann is absolutely right: In your boat you need to come down to a small headsl, most likely by putting a deep, deep roller furl in what you have. Then you clap a tail block, fashioned with a snatch block, on the active sheet and belay the whip at the forward end of the channels. which in a modern boat most likely means a perforated toe rail. The rail is perforated among other reasons to give you this facility.

Bear in mind that the headsl's sole purpose when hove to is to prevent the boat rounding up far enuff to go about of its own accord. The headsl has no driving function.

The question then remains whether the mainsl has enuff driving force to do its job. It may have, but remember that in weather severe enuff to call for heaving to, you should probably already be down to at least the second reef in your main. Maybe even the third! By that time the sail will be badly misshapen and less than properly effective.

What, pray, is it you want to do with your boat that you think you'll have any use for such an antique evolution as heaving to?

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Old 05-12-2022, 18:26   #25
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

Quote:

Boat is a Bob Perry design 1979 Valiant Esprit 37 sloop I have sailed for 40 years.
Actually it is a CUTTER.

So there is that.
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Old 05-12-2022, 19:08   #26
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

I have hove to to let a thunder storm pass whilst I cringed in the bilge. Observing a lightning strike peel a giant tree and "banana skin" it when a child will give you a lifetime phobia about lightning.
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Old 06-12-2022, 10:28   #27
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

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Actually it is a CUTTER.

So there is that.
Not sure Bob Perry would agree with you he drew a cutter, given mast placement, high aspect main (12' boom), and large J dimension (16').

More accurately its a "double head sail sloop" as I seem to remember him calling it.

The "cutter-stay" in the sail plan is there I believe principally to allow for a storm sail option. Also, I believe he preferred to sail the E37 that he personally owned as a sloop rather than a "clutter rig" as he sometimes call them (despite having designed a ton of clutter rig boats).

Also, we do not use a big overlapping genoa now that we are cruising Mexico. That was for racing. The boat is easily driven by just the 110% jib on a furler.

Thanks for the comments up thread confirming the issue we have following the "just back the jib and you're hove-to" conventional wisdom.

And its the "heaving-to in anger" scenario we are trying to prepare for to get a rest and not give up much ground in a relatively long duration heavy weather situation.

My plan now will be to try heaving-to with just the main and completely furled jib next time. That would be dead simple if it works.

And failing that, try rigging a snatch block well forward on the slotted toe rail as suggested with partially furled 110%.

BTW what is the "tail block" mentioned above? Do you mean clamp the snatch block over the loaded jib sheet with some king of line going to the slotted rail, before you come about to back wind the jib? If so, that would be an encouraging simplification and avoid having to muscle anything.

Thanks to all,
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Old 06-12-2022, 10:56   #28
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

A tail block is - get this - a block with a tail :-0)!

Back when King Arfur and I were young, before the invention of genoas let alone spinnakers, an AB had to know all sorts of things relating to rigging that are now remembered only by the odd nonagenarian survivor here and there, but not normally within the ken yotties :-0

Blocks can be had with and without beckets. A becket is an eye that is fashioned from the girdle that surrounds the cheeks of the block. But Harken doesn't do it that way. Not any more. Nevertheless, a modern s/s and plastic block can have an eye - a "becket" - and if you attach a length of line to that eye by means of an eye splice, the block will have a tail, and that is why it's called a "tail block". I wouldn't buy one readymade even if I could. I'd just make one up.

Snatch blocks can be had with beckets, so use one of those. The tail can be as long or as short as the block's particular use demands. To belay it to a perforated toe rail, I would probably use a clove hitch through the rail, snugged up nicely and secured with two half hitches around the standing part.

The choice of fore'n'aft position along the rail in combination with nice judgement of the length of the tail should enable you to get foot and leach tensions balanced so the sail will draw nicely

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Old 06-12-2022, 11:44   #29
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

My first thought was what was the wind speed, rudder angle and how much of your jib was out? Sounded like you may have had too much of the jib out, more than was needed to balance the windward helm from the main.
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Old 06-12-2022, 11:56   #30
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Re: heaving-to dilemma

"My plan now will be to try heaving-to with just the main and completely furled jib next time. That would be dead simple if it works."

It wont hurt to try it but the purpose of the back winded forsail is the keep the heading from passing through the eye of the wind and then accelerating into a crash jibe following which it will continue the process over and over.
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