Heading upwind to furl

[boatman61]

It matters not my course or wind strength I follow the same proceedure, ease the sheet, haul the line.. ease the sheet, haul the line till I reach the required amount of furl I want.
Why rush.. I went out to chill..

[Chrisatlantic]

Try that on a 55’ boat in 20 knots of breeze going upwind and let us know how that works out. And afterwards please tell us how many times you think you can do that without damaging your jib or Genoa.

Easing the sheets a little to depower enough to bear away and then going to a deep reach will greatly depower the boat and greatly reduce the apparent wind speed, and, with the jib in the lee of the main, make rolling it in quite easy and flogging free. For this to work well, you do have to actually do all those things and do them in a seamanlike way — I understand if you only bore away to a beam reach without easing sheets and thought that was a bad idea.

On a smaller boat in less wind technique is not as important but if you want to be kind to your gear and your crew then I’d suggest trying this procedure, you might change your mind.

Or not, this is the Internet after all.

[boatman61]

The secret is never ease enough to make the sail flog, just enough for it to luff, jam sheet haul in some line then repeat..
Build dem muscles boyo..
Bigger boats generally have electric winches or in the case of one 64ftr I delivered had hydraulic powered furlers on the inner and outer head sails.. press a button and in she came.
Some of us have sailed boats bigger than 30ft..

Oh.. and I usually sail solo or +1, even 64ftrs.

[Cheechako]

Heading downwind can cause a breach, dangerous main boom etc, not to mention you are not going the direction you intend to!
Heading up, like anything else, is something YOU NEED TO DO CORRECTLY! ... not just thrash around. Done wrong you don't furl cleanly either, which occurs if you head downwind also.

[goboatingnow]

I think sailing deep to furl is frankly nonsense. If the sheet is accidentally slipped you can blow the sail around the forestay

You risk crash gybing the boat etc.

Again bearing off only works if you can actually depower the head sail , mine does not to any great extent also since I have luff up to drop the main , I might as well head up

[barnakiel]

I furl without changing course.


The sole exception is when the boat gets overpowered before I take notice of wind change.


When so, I either bear off, or head up - depending on which way the shallow water is, and which way I am going.


b.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Chrisatlantic

Try that on a 55’ boat in 20 knots of breeze going upwind and let us know how that works out. And afterwards please tell us how many times you think you can do that without damaging your jib or Genoa. . .

Ahem.

Originally Posted by boatman61

The secret is never ease enough to make the sail flog, just enough for it to luff, jam sheet haul in some line then repeat..
Build dem muscles boyo..
Bigger boats generally have electric winches or in the case of one 64ftr I delivered had hydraulic powered furlers on the inner and outer head sails.. press a button and in she came.
Some of us have sailed boats bigger than 30ft.. [emoji3]
. . .

This.

54 footer in 20 or even 30 knots and no problem, according Boatman's same method. 25.000 miles on laminate jib and still in excellent condition.

It works better with two people, but even single handed it's not hard to regulate sheet tension to prevent flogging but allow furling.

[Sam Woodbridge]

Originally Posted by boatman61

It matters not my course or wind strength I follow the same proceedure, ease the sheet, haul the line.. ease the sheet, haul the line till I reach the required amount of furl I want.
Why rush.. I went out to chill..

It took me time, but I eventually learned what Boatman is describing. It’s what I do. On occasion I’ll start the motor if I think it will be useful.

I guess this thread is about opinions on how to do something.

I like Boatman’s opinion. I think he has the most experience out of us all.

[Joli]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I think sailing deep to furl is frankly nonsense. If the sheet is accidentally slipped you can blow the sail around the forestay

You risk crash gybing the boat etc.

Again bearing off only works if you can actually depower the head sail , mine does not to any great extent also since I have luff up to drop the main , I might as well head up

If you can't bear away without jibing rolling up a jib is the least of your worries.

If you have overlap and head up to furl you're going to have a pressed in SS ring beating the rig. If it's a small boat maybe it doesn't matter but with big boats you simply don't let that happen.

[catsketcher]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

I think sailing deep to furl is frankly nonsense. If the sheet is accidentally slipped you can blow the sail around the forestay

You risk crash gybing the boat etc.

Again bearing off only works if you can actually depower the head sail , mine does not to any great extent also since I have luff up to drop the main , I might as well head up

We'll have to totally disagree about the nonsense part - on my boat bearing away reduces loads dramatically, saves wear and tear on the furler, furling line and genoa, allows for a nicer and less dramatically tight furl, reduces emotional stress on the crew with lack of any flogging and is super easy on my back. And it takes very little time. I also would worry about not being able to manouvre my boat without concerns about broaching. There are also the stories about people jamming furling gear or even twisting the foil sections - I don't want to winch something that could twist, I try to sail my boat with the least stress on it as possible, so bearing away is a really good way of doing that and I wouldn't have it any other way.

I am surprised, but then again I have a racing background where the correct use apparent wind to drop sails is vital if you want a big kite or reacher to drop easily. So I translated this into furling. Obviously it is not vital because successful cruisers don't all do it, but I still wonder about the headsail in the squall I read about - I am pretty sure it would have been fine if they had borne away.

cheers

Phil

[goboatingnow]

I must try it again but when I tried it when the boat was new to me , I found considerable tension on the furling line when bearing away ( I have swept back spreaders so the main can’t be let that far out anyway ) and it needed winching which I’m really reluctant to do.

What I normally do is luff up until the sail partially stalls. I don’t get much flogging and the sheet controls most of that. I can then pull in the furling line by hand very quickly leaving little opportunity for the headsail to flog.

I’ve used this in upto 30 knots without much flogging at all.

It’s a while since I experimented with bearing away but not only did it require a winch and hence sometimes the sheet had to be completely cast of the winch which tended to unsettle the sail. ( cause it’s still partially filled ) I find winching the furling line incredibly slow

I will say I use the bear away to reef as I’m happy to winch even though unloading the sheet is still problematic. I’m half tempted to fit a small winch into the spinnaker winch hard point to handle the lack of winches when on the port tack.


My biggest problem is my main. I find with conventional slides my main will not drop completely even fully luffed up. That means a trip to the mast , I’m thinking of running sone form of Cunningham to act as a pull down run back to the cockpit clutches.

[Fishzine]

I am firmly believe that furling the headsail without coming head to the wind is an important skill and I am in the ease and furl in small increments. But I do have a question for those in the other camp. Do any of you sail with any of the multiple headsail rigs (example cutter) or sail with a large heasail?

On my boat with a single large headsail, 135%, and often a dinghy lashed down on the foredeck, gybing a unfurled headsail is difficult open to a lot more bad things happening.

I have decided for gybing the boat the simplest and safest method is to furl the headsail at least partially, gybe the main, and then unfurl the headsail again. Lots of sail/rig plans have little room to bring the headsail over to the other side. Having messed up a gybe once and wrapping the headsail around the stay, furling downwind makes gybing safer and easier.

Full disclosure, my furling line is permantely rigged to a dedicated winch, so I ALWAYS furl with a winch, but keep a close eye on the furling line tension.

[SV_Sweet_Ruca]

This thread is is really interesting. Most of the old salts with a high post count seem to advocate furling upwind.

Most of the people with fewer posts advocate for furling downwind.

Do those that post less actually sail more often and have more experience? Seems like it from reading this thread.

Bearing off to furl it is the pro move. Even if your main is not up, you will still greatly reduce the apparent wind on the sail and have a smoother furl.

If you are flogging it to death upwind while grinding the winch you are just costing yourself $$$$

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by SV_Sweet_Ruca

This thread is is really interesting. Most of the old salts with a high post count seem to advocate furling upwind.



Most of the people with fewer posts advocate for furling downwind.



Do those that post less actually sail more often and have more experience? Seems like it from reading this thread.



Bearing off to furl it is the pro move. Even if your main is not up, you will still greatly reduce the apparent wind on the sail and have a smoother furl.



If you are flogging it to death upwind while grinding the winch you are just costing yourself $$$$

Again our experiences differ.

As I said I don’t end up completely head to wind , I luft up enough to partially stall the sail , furl by hand quickly ( i don’t have a dedicated winch ) it all takes less then 30 seconds and with some tension on the sheet gives a nice tight furl. Little flogging occurs if everything is done right.

In medium winds as I’m short handed I often do it by putting the AP in wind mode and then luffing up slightly. My original experiences of bearing away means furling using a winch , which is slow , uses up a sheet winch and I don’t like winching to furl. ( this is a 36 footer after all)

Since I have to head up to drop the main it’s no biggie anyway.

I’m not against furling by bearing away , I simply don’t find it unloads the sail enough. ( in anything other then light airs )

As for gybing I arrange my dinghy so it doesn’t foul the sail or the sheets , I wouldn’t use anything on the foredeck that risks entangling sheets or the sail. Hence I gybe in medium airs quite conventionally.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by SV_Sweet_Ruca

This thread is is really interesting. Most of the old salts with a high post count seem to advocate furling upwind.

Most of the people with fewer posts advocate for furling downwind.

Do those that post less actually sail more often and have more experience? Seems like it from reading this thread.

Bearing off to furl it is the pro move. Even if your main is not up, you will still greatly reduce the apparent wind on the sail and have a smoother furl.

If you are flogging it to death upwind while grinding the winch you are just costing yourself $$$$

Never said I head up to furl, just said I follow the same method without altering course..
Ease the sheet and haul on the line maintaining control.

PS: does 17,000nm in 10mths count as experience..