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16-06-2020, 07:11
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#31
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Sea of Cortez
Boat: Kelley-Peterson 46 cutter
Posts: 894
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
I installed a Strong Track; a Teflon sail track. My full-batten main drops effortlessly into the stack-pak. It really works.
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16-06-2020, 07:38
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#32
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 21,201
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
In our boat (26') the mast is only some 33' tall and the main is only some 29' tall. You ease the main and down it goes by pure gravity. All the way. Zip.No downhauls required.
I found on taller masts forward reef line threaded thru No2 helps big way - pull it from the cockpit and you can force at least the lower 1/3 of the sail to the boom. Then the top 2/2 are hardly any effort to pull just by hand.
(Short) masts with grooves and plastic slugs are the easiest, as are quality rails / cars of any length.
Old style rails and or undermaintained cars are where simple things become (deservedly) difficult.
b.
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16-06-2020, 14:20
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#33
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Maryland
Boat: Outbound 46
Posts: 323
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
On our boat, the culprit is friction on the main halyard. Over the years the halyard has swelled somewhat, and there is quite a bit of friction at the line stopper. Add that to the existing friction against the deck and around the turning blocks, and it can really stop the sail from dropping. We can do OK by manually pulling the halyard from forward of the stopper, though the last few feet always require a pull at the mast.
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16-06-2020, 15:24
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#34
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 21,201
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by DMCantor
On our boat, the culprit is friction on the main halyard. Over the years the halyard has swelled somewhat, and there is quite a bit of friction at the line stopper. Add that to the existing friction against the deck and around the turning blocks, and it can really stop the sail from dropping. We can do OK by manually pulling the halyard from forward of the stopper, though the last few feet always require a pull at the mast.
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Sure. On any boat.
The sail comes down but it does not flake itself, does it.
Once the lower part gets sorted up, the top part seems to slide down too - except that the top of the sail is always stiffer (less area but same cloth weight plus the many layers at the top patch do not help).
Also, as you noted, the halyard must be prime - clean and supple, easily moving thru the box at the top as well as thru all organizers and clutches or jammers.
One word of caution though: do not make your halyard butter slick as this in turn creates its own set of challenges. My conclusion is the halyard needs to run smoothly but with some remaining amount of friction - to avoid silly halyard escapes as well as the halyard falling down so easily that it will flog and wrap itself round mast hardware.
b.
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16-06-2020, 15:58
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#35
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 6,501
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor
Or roller bearing Batten cars. On my previous Cat I could open the clutch at the cockpit and the mainsail would disappear into the bag in seconds, never had to leave the cockpit.
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Yep, roller bearing batten cars which significantly decrease the drag and will not jam in the track are a great idea.
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16-06-2020, 16:59
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#36
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Moderator
Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 21,575
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martkimwat
What are the details of your downhaul system Ann? I have the same problem only boat despite having the lazyjacks out on the spreaders and a full top batten. The problem is having the main halyard run back to the cockpit which increases the friction factor as it use to drop completely with the halyard at the mast. Because I sail my boat singlehanded, I wanted all the lines lead aft to limit the number of times I have to go forward.
You say you have it set up with a bungee, that must I assume run either round a doubling system or along the deck or back up the mast somehow, can you give us a bit more detail? does the downhaul line run up one side of the sail/slugs or do you feed it through the slugs?
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Answering for Ann:
Our downhaul begins at the headboard where it is tied through an existing hole near the bottom of the aluminium part and simply runs down to the third ref cringle. The last ~500 mm are bungy cord, stretched enough to keep the line tight when the sail is hoisted.
Nothing nearly as sophisticated as w hat you describe! But it is all we need, for the sail will fall on it's own to where it is within reach. It is also useful to tie it off when the sail is dropped, allowing one to tension the halyard against the downhaul, keeping it from flogging against the mast.
Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II, lying Port Cygnet Tasmania once again.
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16-06-2020, 21:45
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#37
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Boat: LeComte NorthEast 38
Posts: 499
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Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
On our boat, the slugs are plastic except the ones next to the battens, those are stainless; the track is aluminum and there’s a loading gate. The slugs always get caught at the gate, especially the metal ones. So I have to dance a bit helping the sail down both at the mast and flaking it all neatly. Not ideal, but still it’s a one person job, much easier than before the lazy jacks. The halyard winch is on the mast, and the halyard (all rope) is long enough for me to hold when I’m flaking the sail anywhere along the boom.
Anton
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22-06-2020, 07:45
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#38
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Boat: Sigma 36
Posts: 103
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
McLube is magic!
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22-06-2020, 07:46
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#39
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Windsor Ontario
Boat: Schooner scow
Posts: 130
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
I would recommend Strong sailtrack, bat cars and full length battens. It’s not a cheap solution but a very functional one. Especially if you’re concerned about shortening sail in nasty conditions or while short handed. I had this system on our 462 ketch on both main and mizzen. The sails raised and lowered without any issues at all times. It made reefing essentially effortless
https://www.tidesmarine.com/sailtrac...t_overview.php
__________________
My mind is writing cheques my body can't cash!
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22-06-2020, 07:53
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#40
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Boat: Sigma 36
Posts: 103
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captn_Black
I don't think a few centimeters of webbing would be excessive windage. And hauling down from the head would be less likely to get the neat flaking that OP is seeking than using one of the battens, imo.
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I expect that additional windage from webbing is not the issue as much as extra turbulence interfering with the smooth(ish) airflow. Probably only enough to bother racers though.
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22-06-2020, 07:57
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#41
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Blue Hill, Maine
Boat: Sea Sprite 34
Posts: 110
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
I have a tall sail that originally ran with slugs in a track in the mast.
I installed a Tides Marine track. You run the new (very slippery) track up the mast and install provided slugs on the sail.
I'm an older guy. The sail goes up easily and falls down plop into the lazy bag. For reefing just 1)hook the tack, 2)tighten the clew, 3)tighten the luff.
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22-06-2020, 07:58
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Boat: Sigma 36
Posts: 103
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR
Yep, roller bearing batten cars which significantly decrease the drag and will not jam in the track are a great idea.
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Having had to replace one of mine I can also report that they work very well but note that retro fitting them will also make a significant difference to your bank balance - try McLube first!
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22-06-2020, 08:16
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#43
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Beaufort, NC
Posts: 741
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Two simple things to do. First you need to put proper slides on. One product a DIY is Tides Track. It’s a composite if you will rail that you slide up your track. Trim to the right length. Add their slides which are rollers that fit around the track. Harken also makes a very similar product. If you have a larger boat I’d go with Harken.
Second thing to do is to run the lines of your bag out to the spreaders. It opens the bag a bit more.
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22-06-2020, 08:26
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#44
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: EC
Boat: Cruising Catamaran
Posts: 1,428
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Some things to check:
1. Lube the track and whatever the slides are with McLube or (One Drop if it has slides with torlon balls).
2. If the track has a join in it, it may be catching, check for smooth joins and any rivet or screw heads are not protruding
3. If mast has a lot of bend ease off the mainsheet, vang and back stay
4. Check the cheave at the main halyard at the mast top is spinning free
5. Check main halyard is not too thick, or has fuzzed up in places
6. Make sure there is no halyard cross over, eg with spi halyard or topping lift.
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22-06-2020, 09:34
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#45
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Senior Cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: PORTUGAL
Posts: 31,297
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
With your uphaul leading back to the cockpit you have to many combined friction points.. Simple.
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