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15-06-2020, 11:38
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#16
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cabo Verde
Boat: Bruce Roberts Spray, 36' Steel Junk-Rigged Schooner
Posts: 1,245
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpt Mark
a 28' boat should not need a strong track. Try the lube 1st.
If you go the strong track system, warm up the track before installing. IE leave it stretched out in the sun. I had to lengthen my slot a few inches to get the track to go in at an angle to easily slide up the mast slot.
Strong track is an excellent system, 2nd only only to the Harke's Bat cars which would so overkill on your boat.
Widening the slot. I just put my Sailrite kit (stackpack) and was wondering about the width of the slot. Thanks to all who suggested using the spreaders. Next on my list of fun projects up the mast lol
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All sounds a bit x-rated there matey....
__________________
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard
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15-06-2020, 11:53
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 475
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Getting the whole mainsail neatly into the pack on its own is probably impossible, but getting enough of it in that you do not need to go forward to the mast until safely back at the dock certainly is.
In my experience, two things help a lot:
1. Center the boom and sheet in as much as possible (you are going to be head to wind anyway), so as to minimize any oscillation of the boom as the sail comes down.
2. Contrary to what others have said in this thread, "free fall" is not the optimal strategy. I found that the first couple of folds are critical to be done well for the whole main to then be able to come down neatly. So, I control the descent using the halyard for the first two or three folds. The goal is to have the sail form a neat bed at the bottom of the pack. There is enough weight aloft to be able to achieve that, gently controlling the sail as it comes down. Once two (or three, depending on the wind intensity) folds are made, "free fall" the rest of the sail.
If you have sidecars, this works well every time, if not (I do not), once in a while it may need some adjustment at the mast, but most of the time works like a charm.
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15-06-2020, 14:10
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: argyle, nova scotia
Boat: 30 feet sailboat, 1991
Posts: 144
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
I have a wooden mast with external track and a mainsail with no battens. Head to wind it will go into the doyle copy by itself. I rigged a downhaul so I can lower it on any point of sail. Cost me about $20 and one of the best improvements I made to the boat. The mast end of the down haul fastened to the sail about 3/4 of the way up. I spray the knot with generous helping of silicone spray which helps lubricated the track
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15-06-2020, 14:30
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Long Island
Boat: Tartan 37C
Posts: 171
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Following
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15-06-2020, 14:40
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cabo Verde
Boat: Bruce Roberts Spray, 36' Steel Junk-Rigged Schooner
Posts: 1,245
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by peter loveridge
I have a wooden mast with external track and a mainsail with no battens. Head to wind it will go into the doyle copy by itself. I rigged a downhaul so I can lower it on any point of sail. Cost me about $20 and one of the best improvements I made to the boat. The mast end of the down haul fastened to the sail about 3/4 of the way up. I spray the knot with generous helping of silicone spray which helps lubricated the track
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Yea, and as OP has battens he could rig a downhaul to them, already reinforced and would furl neatly from that point I reckon.
__________________
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard
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15-06-2020, 15:17
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Boston
Boat: 1979 O'Day 28
Posts: 145
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
First of all, I'm seriously impressed with all the very helpful suggestions. Second, as a regular reader of this forum you all should also be congratulated for staying on topic and not creating endless theoretical arguments.
I now have at least 4 unique suggestions that I can probably afford and easily try out. For everyone's information I've not had any problem with the lazy jack lines interfering with the sail drop. Based on what you've all said it's probably a combination of halyard resistance, track friction, and a little more practice.
Thanks Ann, for the details on a possible down haul. Also Barnakiel for the information about the slide cars. I really appreciated the advice. Thanks.
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15-06-2020, 15:23
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cabo Verde
Boat: Bruce Roberts Spray, 36' Steel Junk-Rigged Schooner
Posts: 1,245
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
OP, if you go for downhauls, use webbing straps rather than eyes - less likely to rip out in the long run.
__________________
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard
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15-06-2020, 15:45
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#23
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Moderator
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, in Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 29,991
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Our downhaul goes to the headboard of the main. Has never torn. Webbing would be more excess windage, and not needed for a small sail like the OP's.
Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
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15-06-2020, 15:47
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cabo Verde
Boat: Bruce Roberts Spray, 36' Steel Junk-Rigged Schooner
Posts: 1,245
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
I don't think a few centimeters of webbing would be excessive windage. And hauling down from the head would be less likely to get the neat flaking that OP is seeking than using one of the battens, imo.
__________________
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard
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15-06-2020, 19:05
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 6,501
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by FabioC
Getting the whole mainsail neatly into the pack on its own is probably impossible, but getting enough of it in that you do not need to go forward to the mast until safely back at the dock certainly is.
In my experience, two things help a lot:
1. Center the boom and sheet in as much as possible (you are going to be head to wind anyway), so as to minimize any oscillation of the boom as the sail comes down.
2. Contrary to what others have said in this thread, "free fall" is not the optimal strategy. I found that the first couple of folds are critical to be done well for the whole main to then be able to come down neatly. So, I control the descent using the halyard for the first two or three folds. The goal is to have the sail form a neat bed at the bottom of the pack. There is enough weight aloft to be able to achieve that, gently controlling the sail as it comes down. Once two (or three, depending on the wind intensity) folds are made, "free fall" the rest of the sail.
If you have sidecars, this works well every time, if not (I do not), once in a while it may need some adjustment at the mast, but most of the time works like a charm.
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This works.
If you let it freefall the leach tends to drop faster than the luff, because of the drag of the slugs and the halyard, and cock the slugs in the track increasing the drag. Letting down slowly whilst the luffed sail shakes avoids the problem.
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15-06-2020, 20:09
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Boston
Boat: 1979 O'Day 28
Posts: 145
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Raymond & Fabio,
I really like that suggestion of slow going of the first few folds. I'll be one my boat for the next couple days and I'll report back how it works if anyone else is interested. I don't take my laptop to the boat. See you guys in a couple days.
Again, thanks for a variety of suggestions based on your own experiences.
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15-06-2020, 20:37
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2010
Boat: 1974 Westsail 32
Posts: 404
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonesail
check out the Tides Marine Track and Slide System. your mainsail will hoist easily and drop the instant the halyard is released.
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Works like a charm!👍
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16-06-2020, 02:37
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West Sussex, United Kingdom
Boat: Tradewind 33, 33 foot, Parker 27 , 26 foot
Posts: 496
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate
Hello, Bill,
Like barnakiel, we have a very wide "mouth" for the mainsail, that helps. Ours are about 1/2 way out our lower spreaders. We have the same setup as you, with the top two battens being full and the lower two shorter, less than half the width of the sail. We have put a downhaul on ours, and it works fine, and we go forward for raising and lowering the sail. The downhaul is made from light line, and has a bungee to keep it taught while sailing and while reefed. We use a product called Mc Lube (no affiliation) to lubricate the track and the slugs. For us, it has worked best of the products we've tried. Imo, just opening the "mouth" on your setup should make a big difference; it is what I would try first, since you want to stay in the cockpit and not go forward.
Ann
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What are the details of your downhaul system Ann? I have the same problem only boat despite having the lazyjacks out on the spreaders and a full top batten. The problem is having the main halyard run back to the cockpit which increases the friction factor as it use to drop completely with the halyard at the mast. Because I sail my boat singlehanded, I wanted all the lines lead aft to limit the number of times I have to go forward.
You say you have it set up with a bungee, that must I assume run either round a doubling system or along the deck or back up the mast somehow, can you give us a bit more detail? does the downhaul line run up one side of the sail/slugs or do you feed it through the slugs?
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16-06-2020, 05:50
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cabo Verde
Boat: Bruce Roberts Spray, 36' Steel Junk-Rigged Schooner
Posts: 1,245
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by westsailwill
Works like a charm!👍
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I googled that, looks like a great solution when combined with full battens.
__________________
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard
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16-06-2020, 05:53
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#30
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Multihulls - cats and Tris
Posts: 4,886
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Re: Getting the main sail to drop into a lazy jack's pack
Quote:
Originally Posted by RaymondR
Sounds like you need to switch to a junk rig.
At some point the amount of load generated by gravity acting on the descending sail will decrease to below the force required to overcome the friction of the halyard through the blocks and sheaves and you will need to go forward to pull the sail completely down.
The alternative to the junk rig is a furling main sail.
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Or roller bearing Batten cars. On my previous Cat I could open the clutch at the cockpit and the mainsail would disappear into the bag in seconds, never had to leave the cockpit.
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