Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-07-2014, 08:20   #16
Registered User
 
OldFrog75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Boat: Club Sailor; various
Posts: 922
Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Wonder what the heck oldfrogster was trying to accomplish? And even more importantly... why from under the boat?
As usual it took about 5 or 6 posts for Old Frog to realize he hadn't been specific enough in his OP so here goes:

As a club sailor I get on (and race) a lot of different boats (38 or so at last count) and all but a very few have a wheel rather than a tiller.

The range of the wheel from center to rudder stop varies from boat to boat but is usually somewhere between 180 - 270 degrees.

If I know the total rudder arc I can do the arithmetic and figure out how much helm (rudder) I'm adding for any given degree turn of the wheel and therefore how much additional resistance the rudder might be creating in the water, because obviously less is good; more is bad.

I was hoping there is an industry standard regarding full rudder arc for sailboats with a wheel helm since this information is next to impossible to come by on an individual boat basis.

Consequently, if all boats are different, as I suspect they are, I was looking for a quick, easy way to derive the degrees of full rudder arc without hauling out the boat or diving down to inspect it empirically - neither of which are practical, at least not for me.
OldFrog75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 08:30   #17
Registered User
 
Roy M's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Southwestern Yacht Club, San Diego, CA
Boat: Searunner 40 trimaran, WILDERNESS
Posts: 3,175
Images: 4
Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

I recently finished an installation on a Catalina 34 using a Simrad hydraulic autopilot. You DO NOT want to exceed the available ram extension by failing to match the travel to the stops. Just keep fiddling with the position on the tiller arm until the stop to stop travel is just less than the available extension/retraction of the ram.
Roy M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 09:08   #18
Moderator Emeritus
 
HappyMdRSailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Boat: 48 Wauquiez Pilot Saloon
Posts: 5,975
Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
As usual it took about 5 or 6 posts for Old Frog to realize he hadn't been specific enough in his OP so here goes:

As a club sailor I get on (and race) a lot of different boats (38 or so at last count) and all but a very few have a wheel rather than a tiller.

The range of the wheel from center to rudder stop varies from boat to boat but is usually somewhere between 180 - 270 degrees.

If I know the total rudder arc I can do the arithmetic and figure out how much helm (rudder) I'm adding for any given degree turn of the wheel and therefore how much additional resistance the rudder might be creating in the water, because obviously less is good; more is bad.

I was hoping there is an industry standard regarding full rudder arc for sailboats with a wheel helm since this information is next to impossible to come by on an individual boat basis.

Consequently, if all boats are different, as I suspect they are, I was looking for a quick, easy way to derive the degrees of full rudder arc without hauling out the boat or diving down to inspect it empirically - neither of which are practical, at least not for me.
Ah Ha!!!

Make sense now, albeit I knew you were a boatpimp that had no qualms slipping your hands on a different helm each time.... casually tossing aside the last ride without regret... Or remorse... (lucky bast.....)

Of all the helm boats "I" have experience with, almost all without fail are 30-45 leaning towards 45... Exception being at least a J120 with way too much, but I digress...

Take a peek at the E-tiller connection and spin the wheel lock to lock... ??? Surely you can eyeball 60 v 90 degrees?
__________________
In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
HappyMdRSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 09:20   #19
Registered User
 
Matt sachs's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: East Tennessee
Boat: 1989 50 ft Roberts
Posts: 859
Images: 18
Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Thanks All. Ill post pictures tomorrow. The paint is drying today so its still disassembled. Basically I have twin telestar ballanced cylinders. One pushes while the other pulls. I think I want the best of both worlds so my plan is, after reading this, to install stops with .050 clearance when hard over. Then put a piece of 1/8 inch Buna rubber on it so as the cylinder reaches it full range, its also comrpessing the rubber on the stops. On the front page of the telestar instruction manual it says " before you do it your way, do it our way " or something similar to that, so I will run this by them aslo.
Matt sachs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 09:33   #20
Registered User
 
OldFrog75's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Santa Monica, CA
Boat: Club Sailor; various
Posts: 922
Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
Ah Ha!!!

Take a peek at the E-tiller connection and spin the wheel lock to lock... ??? Surely you can eyeball 60 v 90 degrees?
Thanks. That's a great idea...and so intuitively obvious I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it.

OldFrog75 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 09:55   #21
Moderator Emeritus
 
HappyMdRSailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Boat: 48 Wauquiez Pilot Saloon
Posts: 5,975
Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldFrog75 View Post
Thanks. That's a great idea...and so intuitively obvious I'm embarrassed I didn't think of it.


That's the beauty of friends Frogster.... I've been saved from many a closed door faceplant myself....

Give us an update of how practical this is... I mean, it may be hard to tell on some boats?
__________________
In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
HappyMdRSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 10:26   #22
Registered User
 
Matt sachs's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: East Tennessee
Boat: 1989 50 ft Roberts
Posts: 859
Images: 18
Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Here is the mock up,I have since cut a keyway in the quadrant, painted the mounts and turned the teflon shaft bushing. The valves are to keep out the mud dobbers until I get the flex lines.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bushing.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	322.0 KB
ID:	84772   Click image for larger version

Name:	bushing2.jpg
Views:	152
Size:	411.4 KB
ID:	84773  

Click image for larger version

Name:	hydraulics.jpg
Views:	161
Size:	405.2 KB
ID:	84774  
Matt sachs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 10:46   #23
Moderator Emeritus
 
HappyMdRSailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Boat: 48 Wauquiez Pilot Saloon
Posts: 5,975
Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt sachs View Post
Here is the mock up,I have since cut a keyway in the quadrant, painted the mounts and turned the teflon shaft bushing. The valves are to keep out the mud dobbers until I get the flex lines.
Looks slick Matt...

When I need somethin' fabbed, Imma loadin' up the truck and headin' to yer place!

Them mud daubers/dobbers are bastards ain't they??? I couldn't hardly keep 'em out of a through hull long enough to get it taped!
__________________
In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
HappyMdRSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 11:17   #24
Registered User
 
Matt sachs's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: East Tennessee
Boat: 1989 50 ft Roberts
Posts: 859
Images: 18
Re: Full Tiller (rudder) Arc?

Heres some more fab work. I did the root pass with 6011 and second pass with 7018.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	gudgeon3.jpg
Views:	133
Size:	435.8 KB
ID:	84775   Click image for larger version

Name:	gudgeon2.jpg
Views:	151
Size:	432.9 KB
ID:	84776  

Click image for larger version

Name:	rudder gudgeon.jpg
Views:	144
Size:	408.5 KB
ID:	84777  
Matt sachs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
arc, rudder

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I'm a tiller guy, not a wheel guy. With a tiller, I felt I always had complete... Pipeline Multihull Sailboats 30 30-04-2016 09:24
Full reverse from full ahead! Feeg Engines and Propulsion Systems 14 02-10-2012 07:18
Crew Wanted: ARC Regatta 2012 + ARC Europe 2013 skip-per Crew Archives 2 07-02-2012 23:48
Full Ahead to Full Astern . . . Very Quickly deltasig Engines and Propulsion Systems 14 13-09-2010 21:40

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:29.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.