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Old 21-09-2018, 04:50   #31
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

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Originally Posted by Snore View Post
. . .

You guys have given great tips on how to dock against a wharf or dock.

UNFORTUNATELY THE GUYS IS RAFTING!!



Well, he didn't say ALWAYS.


Rafting up is totally simple. Just tie that midships spring to the other boat's midship cleat, shorten it up -- job done. No jumping required. Put on shore lines and springs at leisure.
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Old 21-09-2018, 05:15   #32
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

Thanks for the tips, everyone! Yes--sometimes I'm rafting, sometimes docking. But rafting is the more common (and I think harder) case.

Quote:
The big difference is that unlike docking- if no one is on the other boat to take a line, someone will need to go from your boat to the other one. This should be done at the shrouds! Your shroud and gunwale to theirs.
Especially thanks to Snore - your comments clarified a lot for me. I'd read a lot of advice about docking (and not needing anyone to step of the boat, etc.) and it didn't make sense to me in the context of rafting. I hadn't realized how different the two cases are.

Quote:
Rafting up is totally simple. Just tie that midships spring to the other boat's midship cleat, shorten it up -- job done. No jumping required. Put on shore lines and springs at leisure.
Dockhead, I want to make sure I understand your suggestion: A midship spring line in this case will go from my midship to the other boat's stern, right? Are you suggesting I bring the two sterns close together (so that someone can reach the cleat on the other boat without stepping off - otherwise it seems too far away)? If the sterns are together, then my bow will be pointing way off the dock. So then if I put the engine in low forward (with fenders out!) my boat will straighten out and stabilize next to the other.

Or the opposite, bringing the bows together so someone can get a loop around the other boats bow cleat. Then low reverse to straighten out.
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Old 21-09-2018, 05:17   #33
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

The other thing I appreciate about Snore's advice is that now I feel less bad about accepting help. If someone really should be stepping off onto the other boat, then I'm quite happy to avoid that by having help from shore.
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Old 21-09-2018, 05:32   #34
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

One thing about accepting help from unknowns... Some folks don't have depth perception, and other folks have no idea how long it takes to stop a boat.



Waving you in... checking their watch what is taking you so long... "Ok now stop" the stem is over the other side of the dock..." Low docks and boats with bulwarks that make visibility interesting, an be fun. Guys paid by the marina to handle lines, are not always boat people...



Preferably don't have them tie off on the cleat immediately, take a wrap around a cleat or pole and hold the end and help work you in.



Nosing up to a warf in current or wind and having the guy on the bow toss a bow line to the guy on the warf and immediately getting snubbed down can make for an interesting series of events if the isn't much room in the hole.

Oh, you wanted the pointy end into the current/ or one cleat past the boat ahead of you's stern so you might fit the available space.


Sorry... There was a cleat right here where I was standing. Normally the guys that do that immediately run to catch a stern line and really make matters more interesting. Nascar pit stop docking.



Keep the boat end of the line tied to the cleats rather than eyes passed through and over the horns til the boat comes to a rest, or have everyone carry sharp enough knife to free the boat so the reverse gear does something to let you make another run at it.



If your bow guy is facing you, and the dock guy is facing you, and you are in reverse with a bow line that is slack but has not yet come tight... Neither are looking at the line that you can't see.



They normally have a confused look on their face, that takes a few interesting docking events subtitled on video as inaudible: "We still have a line on, don't you know that." Boing... Rubber band effect, "Oh he knows now." Scrape, crunch. Sounds expensive.
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Old 21-09-2018, 05:32   #35
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

Center spring large loop made of 20ft of rope. drop it over the dock cleat then turn away from the dock. The boat will be completely controlled, nobody jumps off. Nobody gets hurt.
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Old 21-09-2018, 05:41   #36
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

Exonerated,

I single hand monohulls to 53 feet and 44 cats doing charters. On large group charter we raft and let the customers party.

When docking, I always use a forward spring. It is the first line on. Back her in, pause where I left the spring, drop that eye on the beam cleat, and ease he in viola! Leave the boat in gear astern, while I get the bow and then stern. Look'n like a champ every time.

BUT that is docking. When rafting I never ever use a spring for good reason. Take two pieces of paper and cut each out in the arc of a boat. Now secure a line from one boats beam to the others stern. Depending on the taper from the beam to the stern the line may lie on the stanchions. Next, look at the contact point. If the spring is the perfect length, the two boats will meet in one little spot. If your fender is the wrong spot, CRUNCH. If the line is too long/short, your beam touches the other boat forward or aft of his beam. More contact area. Not good!

So for the listed reasons, I caution you about using spring lines to make fast to another vessel. Or dock as I previously posted.
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Old 21-09-2018, 05:45   #37
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

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So for the listed reasons, I caution you about using spring lines to make fast to another vessel. Or dock as I previously posted.
Yeah! It does sound like a lot could go wrong.
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Old 21-09-2018, 07:51   #38
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Rafting up is totally simple. Just tie that midships spring to the other boat's midship cleat, shorten it up -- job done. No jumping required. Put on shore lines and springs at leisure.

Yep. I'd have called that a breast line, but in any case assuming conditions are calm enough for rafting, it should be really easy.

Sometimes we've draped a long bight -- an end of our line held in each hand, like a skiprope -- over a cleat (or very tall pile) that we can't easily reach otherwise. Pull both ends or whatever it takes to make that fast on the target cleat, tie off on our cleat, done.

At docks, we usually use a forward spring (see Snore's note), mostly because that led to our forward mid-ship cleat gives us the right pivot point to pull the boat into a dock when we back down against it. Sometimes, if wind/current suggests we need to go forward on a line, we'll use an aft spring line to our aft mid-ship cleat... and either power against it or let wind/current do the work. Usually we're docked once one of the spring lines is on and working; all the other lines are just window dressing.

Rafting, OTOH, is more usually about lining up the centers of the boats, and usually (for us) in calm enough conditions that it's easier to start with a breast line and then work details afterwards. Lots of fenders, of course, usually more so than we'd use just approaching a dock.

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Old 21-09-2018, 08:29   #39
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exonerated View Post
Thanks for the tips, everyone! Yes--sometimes I'm rafting, sometimes docking. But rafting is the more common (and I think harder) case.



Especially thanks to Snore - your comments clarified a lot for me. I'd read a lot of advice about docking (and not needing anyone to step of the boat, etc.) and it didn't make sense to me in the context of rafting. I hadn't realized how different the two cases are.



Dockhead, I want to make sure I understand your suggestion: A midship spring line in this case will go from my midship to the other boat's stern, right? Are you suggesting I bring the two sterns close together (so that someone can reach the cleat on the other boat without stepping off - otherwise it seems too far away)? If the sterns are together, then my bow will be pointing way off the dock. So then if I put the engine in low forward (with fenders out!) my boat will straighten out and stabilize next to the other.

Or the opposite, bringing the bows together so someone can get a loop around the other boats bow cleat. Then low reverse to straighten out.
No, midship to midship, and work it up short. It will hold you in place by the same principle as a midship spring onto a dock.

Rafting is much simpler than tying up alongside a dock.

If the line is attached to your bow or stern rather than midship, one end of the boat will be out of control. Always start with a midship spring.
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Cushion me soft . . . . rock me in billowy drowse,
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Old 21-09-2018, 08:36   #40
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
...Always start with a midship spring.
I tried to tell them.
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Old 21-09-2018, 09:39   #41
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

Lots of good advice. Take a look at You Tube for some great tutorials and what to do and NOT to do.
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Old 21-09-2018, 09:56   #42
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

Lassoo from a centre cleat and motor forward.
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Old 21-09-2018, 09:57   #43
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

Similar to what others have said, it is not a good idea to get on the dock until the boat is stopped and stable. Especially with inexperienced crew, they may miscalculate the jump and get in trouble.

We use a mid-ship spring line. We drop it from the boat around a cleat on the dock and drive against it until the boat is stopped and stable. Nobody jumps off while the boat is moving and/or it is not close to the dock. Only once the boat is in position and stopped, we get on the dock and take care of the other lines.

The only thing needed from the crew is to drop the line on the dock cleat, but that is not too difficult to achieve. They can even miss once or twice, and still have the time to retry and catch the cleat. Before leaving the dock to go sailing, you can have them practice once or twice, so it is clear what needs to happen.
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Old 21-09-2018, 10:34   #44
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

I'm no docking/rafting expert, but I notice no one has mentioned that you want to end up with the two boats' masts staggered in relation to one another. That way the boats can rock back and forth without cracking spreaders against each other.
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Old 21-09-2018, 10:48   #45
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Re: docking w/ inexperienced crew?

I sadly fell a victim to this. I stuck my leg out to fend off another boat and did serious damage to my calf muscle.
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