Docking - I made several mistakes

[jmh2002]

Originally Posted by gonesail

20 knots of wind and you want to back a 45' boat in? you are a much braver man than me.

Why? It's pretty standard practice.

Also most fin keel / spade rudder designs (ie: not a long keel classic hull) actually handle better going astern while docking or low speed manoeuvring.

And in the OPs scenario, with the wind also astern, it is even more helpful since it resists the bow from blowing off too (the bow is already pointing downwind).

[meirriba]

Originally Posted by gonesail

20 knots of wind and you want to back a 45' boat in? you are a much braver man than me.

As described, the wind was from the direction of the stern.
Not really difficult to berth. The wind keeps your bow downwind, actually it is easy even with 20Kn wind.
It starts to get interesting if the wind is not directly on the stern, getting progressively worse with the wind going further out of the stern, pushing boat (and mainly the bow) out of line.

The bow-thruster may help with a side wind, however, usually it is not powerful enough to take on a wind around 15Kn or more.

[LongRange]

Originally Posted by gonesail

20 knots of wind and you want to back a 45' boat in? you are a much braver man than me.

Not brave at all. Quite the opposite.

As others have also mentioned, with this style of boat the bow wants to fall off, making it rather difficult to keep it pointed into the wind unless moving relatively quickly. The opposite is by comparison easy - present the stern to the wind, and use the bow thruster for minor corrections to keep the bow downwind. It works well. The very high aspect rudder, which is practically as deep as the keel, has massive authority forwards or backwards.

I suppose it would be very different with a more classical design. A friend's small Jongert with its full keel and keel-hung rudder is essentially impossible to maneuver in reverse. Even in dead calm it oscillates in huge uncontrollable circles when going astern, almost as if it has no rudder at all. Reverse med-mooring is not an option for him.

My boat is very controllable in reverse, even more so than going forward, especially if moving into the wind.

[LongRange]

Originally Posted by meirriba

Your initial plan was good.
It is always easier to secure the upwind line first and let the boat fall naturally into place with the wind (it may be different if there is also a current present going in a different direction than the wind).

Thanks.

Originally Posted by meirriba

Was your wife standind on the stern with the stern line in hand? You could instruct her to stick to the original plan.

No, I think she was probably amidships at the time, or walking along the deck. She would not have been at the stern because that's where I was. Our boat has the primary wheel on the starboard side, which in this case was closer to the dock. I had been planning to throw the aft line over the bollard myself, once I got close enough, but as it happened I did not get sufficiently close for a precise throw, and that's when the panicky bit started in earnest.

Originally Posted by meirriba

Anyway, best thing to do (which I did not succeed to implement...) is to let the lady helm the boat and yourself handle lines, anchor or whatever mooring jobs, that normally needs more physical force. The helm needs only brains ( again, the wife usually has more) and experience.

Yes, I think that is a key takeaway so far. Almost everyone is in agreement that the physically weaker half of the couple should be at the helm. Achieving that is perhaps easier said than done, and I am grateful for all the advice on how to realign those responsibilities.

[Dr. D]

(I didn't read all the posts, so apologies if this was covered... )



If I am on the dock and a boat is approaching a slip in a situation where help may be needed (they are short handed, or appear to be approaching the slip for the first time), I stand near the slip and holler, "Captain, standing by if you need a hand." Then I wait. If they want help, I follow their request. If not, I admire their boat handling.

[kayakerChuck]

Yup, I'm resurrecting an old thread- it's EXACTLY what I was hoping to find.

I'm a lifelong boater, from a long line of boat people. Mostly, I've had powerboats, but I've also sailed small boats for most of my life. Mostly, the people I've been boating with have similar backgrounds. We usually launched, docked, and picked up mooring buoys or whatever without exchanging more than a few words. This makes me a horrible mentor to Sheila, who is very willing, but has no experience.

Ann- thank you for articulating the "fear of disappointing your partner". I think that's exactly Sheila's biggest fear.

This year we bought an O'Day 30, which is a significant change from our little 22' sailboat we started with. We sailed our new to us boat for a few hours this spring, spent a month refitting her, then set off on a 600 mile trip, harbor hopping to get home to Detroit. When docking, I was always stressed, which tends to make me quiet. I'd explain the plan (I think in a way that was not well understood.), then my brain was too occupied thinking about the boat to listen to Sheila. I let her know not to take it personally, I was mentally overloaded. Of course, most of our dockings early in the trip were mean.

We did fine, no bumps or bruises to people or boats. It's a 40 year old boat with a few marks from previous dock encounters. I'm not too worried about the boat- people matter and I can fix fiberglass.

As she gains confidence, Sheila is becoming more proactive. This is good, but not always. Not long ago we were coming into our slip with a strong wind blowing from the head of our slip. I told S that we would not use our normal spring line and I would head directly into the slip. She was to use the boat hook to secure either of our bow lines which are permanently tied to the dock. We got mostly into our well, Sheila left the bow, and dropped our spring line over the midship piling. Hmmm, now I can't get the bow close enough to the dock to secure our bow lines. Docking was ugly, but ultimately successful. As soon as the spring line stopped us, Sheila knew she messed up and felt bad. I'm OK with the wrong line getting secured, I'd like to avoid Sheila feeling bad about it.

Sheila is learning, but I'm not a great sailing mentor. I have taught Windsurfing, technical shop classes, outdoor classes, etc, and very well understand that knowing how to do a thing does not equate to the ability to teach the thing. I do not know how to teach boating skills.

Ideally, I'd like to find a local, female, sailing teacher to help Sheila. I have a few inquiries out and am hopeful we can find someone. (just in while I'm typing- a local sailing club has "sailing for women classes" :-) )

I'd also like to become a better mentor- both to increase my knowledge and skills (not that I have much of either!), and to better share and communicate with others.

Can anybody point me to any resources to help be become a better sailing mentor?

I'd like to edit this a bit before posting, but my keyboard is not letting me do anything but type. First world problem :-)

[Auspicious]

Based on your statement that you are mentally overloaded at least while docking, I have two thoughts:

1. Hire a coach for both of you to take you sailing. Work on skills for both of you.

2. Take a competent crew with you to whom you can delegate so you can focus on mentoring Sheila. Again, working on your mental overload to make you a better mentor.

I have a practice method for close quarters maneuvering. Drop me a note dave@AuspiciousWorks.com and I'll email you a copy.

[kayakerChuck]

Thanks Dave!

As soon as we got home, I spent a WHOLE bunch of time practicing close quarters maneuvering & docking. I'm no longer particularly stressed. Docking single handed is usually easy. The fun is when usually when more people are involved.

I love the idea of bringing a coach out to help both of us. If the coach is working both of us, it takes the pressure away from Sheila. I'm good at being a bad example :-)

A big part of the attraction of sailing for me is the fact that there is always more to learn.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by kayakerChuck

A big part of the attraction of sailing for me is the fact that there is always more to learn.

The day we stop learning is the day we die. There is always something new to learn. Anyone who thinks s/he has nothing more to learn doesn't know what they don't know. The more you know, the harder you have to work to learn more.

Never trust anyone, especially yourself. Always question. Always strive for improvement.

The best way to learn is to teach. Be self aware.

Best to you and Sheila. sail fast and eat well, dave

[jtsailjt]

Sometimes it’s tough to mentor your significant other so engaging a 3rd party can benefit you both and get you on the same page about how to do things aboard your boat as a team.

From the description of your plan and how it went down I think you did everything right except for not immediately demanding the bow line be let go and a spring be secured first. But I’ve been in that situation and have tried to salvage it even though I knew the odds were suddenly against me too. Ultimately you did a fantastic job once you made the decision to abort. No harm no foul.

I think the key to avoiding these situations is to preferably have a regular crew member who you’ve shared so many of these situations with that you both just know what need to be done. But if your crewmember and you aren’t yet highly experienced at working together, a thorough briefing about what you expect to see, and exactly what you expect from your crewmember is important. As you brief them pay attention to whether they are really listening. Emphasize which line and in which order you want them to be secured. I emphasize how important it is to “take a wrap” around a cleat rather than thinking you can reel in a 50,000# boat with a 10 knot breeze blowing on it by just pulling with your arms. I have a bow thruster so I tell them that I can control the bow with it but not the stern, so the bow line is the least important. It’s almost always spring, stern, bow, opposite spring, then adjust bow and stern. But despite this briefing and discussion I was recently docking with a friend as crew. I had emphasized both the importance of the spring and the stern lines as well as the importance of quickly getting a spring line around a cleat ASAP. But had to chuckle when despite this, my friend stepped down onto the dock with both the aft spring and stern lines in hand (good so far) but instead of quickly getting the spring secured around the cleat that he almost stepped on he ran to the stern and secured the stern line. Then, with a healthy breeze blowing us off the dock he tried to pull on the spring line hard enough to bring the bow back closer to the dock. But as hard as he could strain he was losing ground and about to be pulled off the dock until I used the bow thruster to assist him. It was a very simple docking and despite what I thought was a thorough brief, we screwed it up. If I had it to do over I would tell him that I only cared about one line, a spring secured to midships clear and made fast to a cleat ASAP before the wind could have any effect on us. I think I made it too complicated for him by even mentioning the bow and stern lines so introduced uncertainty to his mind. I should have just said, once we’re close enough ho easily step (not leap) onto the dock, just take this spring and secure it to the closest cleat and from there we’ll decide what to do next. With one midships spring secured to the dock, all the melodrama is over so that’s going to be even more of my focus in the future, especially with inexperienced crew. Live and learn.