Cutter vs Solent Rig

[daletournier]

Losing the big Genoa is one of the better things I've done on the boat. The 100% jib is a big improvement. I rarely need to furl the jib, just fuel (reef) the main.
Real light stuff theres the code zero on the furler.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Mystic38

My 1993 Sabre 38 mkII has a quite powerful main with 3 reefs and added a solent rig with a detachable inner forestay and a hank on 85% "staysail" for offshore...anticipating close to balance with the third reef.

In my opinion, you would have been happier with a cutter-rigged sloop vice a Solent rig.



You are absolutely correct about the burden of rigging underway. Headed offshore the inner foresail should be completely rigged (including sheets) and bagged on the foredeck. It is useless in a sail locker.



Inshore in summer I like a 135--a rather light one by conventional standards--but regardless of wind predictions I go offshore with a 100 on the furler and the staysail bagged on deck, hanked on, and rigged. The improved pointing with a hanked on staysail over a partially furled headsail is amazing. It does indeed help on most boats to have running backstays. I don't understand the issue people take with having running backs; they are really useful - stories to tell. *grin* I do have a fairly deep reef (the old fashioned kind on my staysail.



You're expectation of good balance between the staysail and a deep third reef in the main matches my experience. The reefed staysail works in higher winds yet and with the main down completely higher yet. THAT I've only done once. The biggest issue there is getting the main tied down really tight to reduce windage.

[Arthurwg]

Originally Posted by Arthurwg

Funny you mention this wonderful book, I just ordered a copy from Abe Books to replace the one I had years ago. Laurent Giles was a fabulous yacht designer in his day. A must read, IMHO.

Very embarrassing. Not Laurent Giles at all. Rather, John Illingworth. Sorry for my confusion.

[Chotu]

Somewhere we were talking about flying the Genoa or the solent, but not both together. It seemed to be accepted thought here that that would not improve the speed in anyway. However, look at these racers. They seem to be doing that. Can anyone tell me why?

[B23iL23]

The current trend in the more modern racers is to set the mast aft - this gives you the room up front to space out your headsails. Then add in a sprit and you get get to fly even more sails. Also these sails are usually cut very flat so as to keep the slots as open as possible.


You do need running backstays with this setup so that's an additional thing to think about.


So it does improve speed but you need to get the setup right.

[jmh2002]

B23iL23 pretty much nailed the explanation.

So it's to do with both the amount of separation between the sails, as well as the point of sail that you are on.

I think I mentioned earlier in this thread that on most cruising boats you could probably benefit from flying a staysail together with whatever big headsail you have on the bow when on a beam or broad reach, if there is a enough separation.

(You can see my earlier posts here, I think they have useful info: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...rchid=27817296)

So my ideal setup is to have 2 headsails on the bow (with or without a bowsprit, boat dependant) - a very big code type sail for light air upwind reaching + a 100% blade jib for the rest. If you are more performance minded the code type sail could also only be hoisted when required.

Additionally I would then have another inner stay set much further back. This would be around where the orange headsail is in your photo.

This inner stay position would be:

- removable
- used to set a proper heavy hanked on storm jib for offshore sailing
- used to set a hanked on (or synthetic wire luff) staysail as additional horsepower on long legs (or for more enthusiastic sailors).

NB: even on a 50ft boat a hanked on stay sail or storm jib is small and easily managed by hand.

More detailed post here: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post2949116

Also whilst this won't prove popular here, I would also have only modern lightweight 'continuous line furlers' for 'roller furling' not 'roller reefing'. This will result in much better sail shapes.

With 3 different headsail options available I prefer to just swap from the code type sail, to the 100% blade, and to the staysail or storm jib as the wind increases.



PS: here is a clearer example photo from my earlier post https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post2948625 On a normal cruising boat, especially if retrofitting, the 2 headsails on the bow would be closer together, but the inner stay / stay sail / storm jib position looks just about right.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Somewhere we were talking about flying the Genoa or the solent, but not both together. It seemed to be accepted thought here that that would not improve the speed in anyway. However, look at these racers. They seem to be doing that. Can anyone tell me why?

Those are staysails, not Solents.


Even a cruisers with a true Solent rig can easily run twin headsails down wind.