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jmh2002 · 08-08-2019, 07:10

Yep, it was just interesting to do the exercise though and see how the numbers worked out.

Be aware though that normal furling sails, even furled to a very small sail area, are still not built for real heavy air and may be quickly damaged.

This is part of the reasoning behind dedicated storm sails. On your boat probably adding a free flying storm jib with a synthetic luff would be a sufficiently good compromise for offshore passages.

barnakiel · 08-08-2019, 08:49

I think inner stays and sails flown there are great if you are planning on serious upwind bashes.

Big sails furled partly on the outer stay become very very inefficient in such conditions.

Having two stays, in any config, has also the huge benefit of being able to have a very light fore sail and a much flatter and heavier inner sail. This is like having a gear box added to the engine - as the wind changes force and as you change angles, you can now carry sails to match the conditions.

I have sailed boats with both configs and my preference is for BOTH.

The solent permanent with the 'smaller heavier' sail.

The cutter on a hook, detachable to hoist sails on hanks. Today such stays are actually done with synthetic wire.

Mast fittings are easy to add, but the cutter asks for a form of fitting below the deck to lead the forces to structural members of the boat.

Cheers,
b.

jmh2002 · 08-08-2019, 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

Having two stays, in any config, has also the huge benefit of being able to have a very light fore sail and a much flatter and heavier inner sail. This is like having a gear box added to the engine - as the wind changes force and as you change angles, you can now carry sails to match the conditions.

Exactly

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmh2002

I'm going to stay away from using Cutter or Solent terminology, but here is my ideal setup:

- 2 headsails on the bow
- 1 a code zero type for light air upwind and as well as off the wind
- 1 a 100% blade headsail as a heavier working jib for upwind and all round use in trade winds and above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by barnakiel

I have sailed boats with both configs and my preference is for BOTH.

The solent permanent with the 'smaller heavier' sail.

The cutter on a hook, detachable to hoist sails on hanks. Today such stays are actually done with synthetic wire.

Great minds think alike it seems

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmh2002

Additionally I would then have another inner stay set much further back. In general this would only be to set a proper heavy storm jib for offshore sailing, although some type of staysail could also be set here if so desired on long legs (or for more enthusiastic sailors).

The storm job and staysail can be hanked on. This inner stay can be removable.

With 3 different headsail options available I prefer to just swap from the code zero, to the 100% blade, and to the storm jib as the wind increases.

All (edited) excerpts from my earlier post here: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2949116

Mplight · 08-08-2019, 10:22

Actually Our Bristol 38.8 was re-rigged in ‘95 (by PO),
To a cutter rig complete with running back stays-
No mast repositioning, as that would have been a nightmare- we sailed with cutter rig for a year after purchasing S/V Dreamer, but sailing in Narragansett Bay/Sakonnet River requires much tacking- we did see a marked improvement with the Sta’sail, but decided to remove- we are going to re rig with a stay sail stay with (Highfield type lever) and hank on sail for longer passages.

Ferrari · 08-08-2019, 13:33

Don't wish to confuse further but a Yankee / Staysail is a commonly used option for a Cutter rig. It provides a simple solution when the wind picks up.
You'll get better performance with a full headsail though and the required Runners are a pain.

Peeew · 08-08-2019, 14:22

If you plan on using either/or of the two headsails my system works well for me. A small jib and a huge flat cut code zero on its own furler mounted on the short sprit.

daletournier · 12-08-2019, 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peeew

If you plan on using either/or of the two headsails my system works well for me. A small jib and a huge flat cut code zero on its own furler mounted on the short sprit.

That's my set up, almost. Seems to work well.

Nicholson58 · 12-08-2019, 07:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by usdivers61

Hey guys,

I am interested in adding a cutter or solent rig to my sloop for versatile of sail plan.

I would be interested in hearing from owners who have added one or the other, and what were the costs and hassles involved.

We are a cutter ketch. In the Caribbean, winds are east and strong most of the time. The cutter is our most used sail. At 18 apparent and up the Genoa is too large. Our cutter is on a roller furler. It is sheeted on an inside track so we can sail closer to the wind using it. We made sure to up size the material weight for maintaining long term shape. This was a great decision.

The permanent cutter complicates tacking the genoa.

Auspicious · 12-08-2019, 08:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveSadler

Having delivered boats of both rigs, the Solent stay has a big advantage of not having to change headsails when going to weather in strong wind.

Lots of similar experience and a different conclusion. Tacking the most forward sail on a Solent rig is awkward and time consuming. The windage from those affects pointing and boat motion in anchorages. I'm just not impressed.

A staysail on the other hand can be tacked around and is much more helpful in heavy weather.

I spent my money on a cutter-rigged sloop, removable inner forestay, and running backstays. You aren't going to shape the tree trunk called a mast on a cruising boat but with runners and an adjustable backstay you can sure affect the forestay tension and that goes to pointing and sail shape.

I have an offshore weight 100 jib and a light 135. The 135 is on the furler for summers on the Chesapeake and Long Island Sound. Offshore the 100 is up there. The hank-on staysail is rigged and ready (including sheets) anytime we go offshore. Hanks made it easy to add a reef to the staysail. I've been very glad to have that reef a few times.

General cruising and island hopping everything extra is out of the way. I do have the benefit of a good sized sail locker under the v-berth with room for the jib not on the furler, the staysail, and two spinnakers.

Beau.Vrolyk · 12-08-2019, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by usdivers61

Hey guys,

I am interested in adding a cutter or solent rig to my sloop for versatile of sail plan.

I would be interested in hearing from owners who have added one or the other, and what were the costs and hassles involved.

There isn't nearly enough information in this request to provide an accurate answer. You'll need to provide answers to at least these questions:

1) Goals of making the change, what you're hoping to achieve by changing the rig.

2) Description of the rig and boat. EG: Does it have swept-back spreaders, does it have running backstays, does it have a large mainsail and small foretriangle or a small main and big foretriangle like an IOR boat? etc....

There simply isn't enough information in your request to allow anyone to do anything but spout opinions. A drawing of the hull profile and rig design would allow folks to address your question, without it, any answer will probably be wrong.

Triumph · 12-08-2019, 08:56

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the use of the Solent for sailing downwind with twin headsails. That's how we used it going across the South pacific. It was great for that, but otherwise, I'd prefer the cutter rig for upwind work and heavier weather sailing.

Bill on TRIUMPH

Stu Jackson · 12-08-2019, 09:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by usdivers61

I am interested in adding a cutter or solent rig to my sloop for versatile of sail plan.

How long have you owned this boat.

daletournier · 12-08-2019, 09:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triumph

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the use of the Solent for sailing downwind with twin headsails. That's how we used it going across the South pacific. It was great for that, but otherwise, I'd prefer the cutter rig for upwind work and heavier weather sailing.

Bill on TRIUMPH

I'm considering making mine a proper Solent for exactly this reason. The easy of reducing two poled out headsails on furlers , much easier than reducing a main sail.

Auspicious · 12-08-2019, 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by daletournier

I'm considering making mine a proper Solent for exactly this reason. The easy of reducing two poled out headsails on furlers , much easier than reducing a main sail.

Most foils have two tracks. Two sails on one furler makes furling a twin headsail rig a lot easier on both crew and autopilot.