Boat sinks in The Northwest Passage

[StuM]

Posted earlier:


Yacht Lost in North West Passage - Cruisers & Sailing Forums


Link direct to the blogspot article without any gratuitous comment about "alarmists".



Mods may like to combine the threads.

[seandepagnier]

From the article:

"This time the skipper and his crew were extremely lucky to come out alive. But sooner or later, Arctic alarmists, with their lies about disappearing sea ice, will have deaths on their conscience."

lol

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

From the article:

"This time the skipper and his crew were extremely lucky to come out alive. But sooner or later, Arctic alarmists, with their lies about disappearing sea ice, will have deaths on their conscience."

lol

Nah, not a hope, they don't have consciences, with zealots of all types it's all for the cause and to hell with the people.

Does not matter how well it's built or what it's built from a small vessel such as a yacht is always going to be liable to crushing in any significant thickness of sea ice.

[Dooglas]

Originally Posted by boat_alexandra

From the article:

"This time the skipper and his crew were extremely lucky to come out alive. But sooner or later, Arctic alarmists, with their lies about disappearing sea ice, will have deaths on their conscience."

lol

This statement is nonsense and had no place in the original article, just as DeepFrz commented earlier. It really has nothing to do with the event which occurred. Hazardous ice conditions have developed late in the Arctic summer, a would be passage maker ignored a Coast Guard warning, and was sunk. That is the story. The event was not linked to climate trends, or debates about climate trends - one way or another. You don't have to have any particular set of beliefs to understand that ice conditions in the arctic passages vary from year to year, or that they are passable by smaller boats under some conditions.

[john61ct]

Weather is not climate goofball

https://youtu.be/4J4JtMxCJ94

[rmlarson1098]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Now here is an idiot remark. There is lots of open water in the Arctic Ocean its just that the NW Passage is jammed. There are also many areas of weak and thinning ice in the Arctic and the ice extent is still way below the 81-2010 average. People who underestimate the conditions in the Arctic are looking for trouble.

I agree; a idiotic remark. The 'Comments' following the story were far worse,
one hoping that people will die in the NWP and that'll be a lesson to us all?
Where do they get these guys?!

[DeepFrz]

Originally Posted by rmlarson1098

I agree; a idiotic remark. The 'Comments' following the story were far worse,
one hoping that people will die in the NWP and that'll be a lesson to us all?
Where do they get these guys?!

rmlarson, thanks for reading all of that into my remarks. You are surely omniscient.

However, let me clarify. The CCG was warning boaters that the NW Passage was blocked and in all likely hood would not open this year. The Arctic Ice report was showing it blocked in both satellite photos and in comments with heavy ice concentrations throughout the passages.

I have never wished anyone hard luck however I think a prudent sailor would listen to advice given to her/him by the CCG, especially in such a remote location.

Now, having said all of that the navigation season looks like it will close with the ice extent in the Arctic Ocean at about the 4th or 5th least amount of ice ever recorded, well below the 81 - 2010 average. The NW Passage however will not open this year.

Cheers.

[davefrediam]

On the subject of hull material just thought I would add that Aluminium's shear strength is far far inferior to that of steel at any temperature. Which makes it much more likely to fail if your yacht hits anything!
In this case it is likely the skin split around the frames (or any other rigid internal structure) where forced in by the ice.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Dooglas

This statement is nonsense and had no place in the original article, just as DeepFrz commented earlier. It really has nothing to do with the event which occurred.

It’s directly related to the heart of the article, the point of which is to cite an anecdotal event that “proves” that global warming is a hoax. Just look at the rest of the site and the author’s other posts.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by davefrediam

On the subject of hull material just thought I would add that Aluminium's shear strength is far far inferior to that of steel at any temperature. Which makes it much more likely to fail if your yacht hits anything!

Steel boats are very tough, but the sheer strength difference is not as great as you may think. The 5083 aluminium has a sheer strength of 190 Mpa and mild steel is usually quoted at 220 Mpa.

Aluminium welds are not quite as strong as material itself so this increases the differences, but because alumiunium is much lighter, the thickness used can be much greater than a steel boat and the framing more extensive.

Our new boat, for example, has a minimium hull thickness of 8mm. An equivalent steel boat would likely have a minimium hull thickness of 3 or 4mm.

Shame about the Ovni. Before you judge the crew too harshly, bear in mind that these sort of cruising grounds are very difficult. I have spoken to some very experienced skippers that have been stranded in ice on occasions. These guys are pushing the boundaries.

[Lepke]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

People who underestimate the conditions in the Arctic are looking for trouble.

Exactly

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

newhaul, you did mention "agw" in your post #7. And it was the first mention of it.

Oh puhleeze! It was DeepFrz, in post #5 who posted a comment that followed the article and made inferences that are obviously about AGW.

[hpeer]

I’m more interested in discussing the reason the boat went down. I would have thought the Ovni, with her swing up keel, would have been a good candidate to pop up when caught in a pressure ridge, to sit atop the ice. Perhaps the captain thought so also?

Anyway this clearly did not happen. I wonder why?

Ice on the swim platform held her down?

[transmitterdan]

There is no magic that will make a boat “pop up” out of the ice when it is pushed into the hull. The ice is jagged and creates many sharp high pressure points against the hull. The entire weight of the boat can end up impinging on jagged ice. It will cut the hull like a hot knife though butter. Ice breakers and other ships designed for Arctic seas have ridiculously thick hulls. It is fantasy to imagine a pleasure boat could be reinforced to survive getting encased in pack ice.

Sadly, the captain used the ice to destroy a perfectly good boat.

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Steel boats are very tough, but the sheer strength difference is not as great as you may think. The 5083 aluminium has a sheer strength of 190 Mpa and mild steel is usually quoted at 220 Mpa.

Aluminium welds are not quite as strong as material itself so this increases the differences, but because alumiunium is much lighter, the thickness used can be much greater than a steel boat and the framing more extensive.

Our new boat, for example, has a minimium hull thickness of 8mm. An equivalent steel boat would likely have a minimium hull thickness of 3 or 4mm.

Shame about the Ovni. Before you judge the crew too harshly, bear in mind that these sort of cruising grounds are very difficult. I have spoken to some very experienced skippers that have been stranded in ice on occasions. These guys are pushing the boundaries.

Anyone sailing there is a risk taker.
Sometimes the risk consumes them or bites them.