Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-07-2018, 14:46   #76
Registered User
 
Bigjim's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Waukegan, IL
Boat: Columbia 10.7
Posts: 670
Images: 120
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Were all the boats stopped due to the current?

It looks like your PHRF (162-180) isn't bad so you should be able to move in 5 knots....

No. The other boats were clawing their way to wind slowly, but surely. But all of the other ones have fin keels and are more racers than cruisers.

We were out on Monday in a 10 knot breeze and got to 6 knots with just our jenny.
Bigjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2018, 15:14   #77
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 10,667
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigjim View Post
No. The other boats were clawing their way to wind slowly, but surely. But all of the other ones have fin keels and are more racers than cruisers.

We were out on Monday in a 10 knot breeze and got to 6 knots with just our jenny.
Yeah, I'm thinking with a bit more experience you will be among those clawing their way to windward slowly.

I haven't raced much with this Bristol but a young man with an Alberg 30 who had never raced and I decided to setup a series of singlehanded races between ourselves

It was about a 12 mile course. On one of our races, I totally screwed the start and he got maybe a 6 boat length lead and then the wind stopped.

It was hot also and after a bit I could feel that the right side of my face was feeling a bit cooler so I set the sails for wind on the starboard beam and was able to catch and pass in 10-15 minutes...…..but I've completed maybe 400 plus races similar to this one and he had maybe 6

And my competition was some of the best in the USA some of whom raced this 1000 mile race in the Atlantic.

thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2018, 22:24   #78
Registered User
 
Bigjim's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Waukegan, IL
Boat: Columbia 10.7
Posts: 670
Images: 120
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

I think I finally figured out the problem. We were having a ton of problems going to windward with the boat when the genny was fully deployed. The sail that came with the boat was A 155% genoa. I noticed that no matter how hard we pulled it down it would not flatten out.

So, on the last race we reefed it about 110% and moved the jib leads to a shorter position. Suddenly, the boat started moving much better to wind.

I think the jib is so old and baggy it just can't be trimmed properly to work close-hauled unless it's furled in. I'm ordering a smaller jib that should work better.

Last weekend we went out in about 10 knots of wind and had the boat moving at 6 knots the whole time with the furled jib. I think we figured it out.

I'll post an update as soon as I get the new sail and try it out.
Bigjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2018, 22:32   #79
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, in Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 28,843
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

The big, old, baggy sail may still be a boon off the wind. It's sorta like "there's no susbstitute for cubic inches" (in car engines), sail area matters, as well as shape. Had you tried increasing the halyard tension to move the draft forward?



Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2018, 23:07   #80
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,548
Images: 22
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

There was a thread about 2 years ago when Stu Jackson suggested smaller Genoas rather than large 140+ are better in light winds. He linked to a discussion on the Catalina's 34 forum I think and a long discussion there. The upshot is that in light winds a low aspect genoa of heavy cloth due to its size just collapses in fluky winds, whilst a smaller say 110% is more of a blade shape and sets better because the extra material on the leach isn't pulling the sail down or out of shape.

We have a similar problem sailing dead downwond with a 140% Genoa to the point I actually gybe downwind sailing 20 deg off so the sail doesn't constantly flap when the wind gets behind it. Our next Genoa will be smaller about 120%.

Pete
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2018, 23:21   #81
Registered User
 
Bigjim's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Waukegan, IL
Boat: Columbia 10.7
Posts: 670
Images: 120
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by JPA Cate View Post
The big, old, baggy sail may still be a boon off the wind. It's sorta like "there's no susbstitute for cubic inches" (in car engines), sail area matters, as well as shape. Had you tried increasing the halyard tension to move the draft forward?

Ann
We tried everything with the old sail but nothing worked. It's just too baggy. It works ok off the wind but up wind we can't get it in the right shape.

Furling it down to 110% or so and moving the fairleads seems to be the trick. On Saturday we were hitting 6 knots constantly with it furled. We never got that with it out.

As for off the wind, it's too hard to tack. It constantly gets hung up on the shrouds and mast when fully out. At 110% it snaps over nicely.
Bigjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-08-2018, 23:32   #82
Registered User
 
Bigjim's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Waukegan, IL
Boat: Columbia 10.7
Posts: 670
Images: 120
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7 View Post
There was a thread about 2 years ago when Stu Jackson suggested smaller Genoas rather than large 140+ are better in light winds. He linked to a discussion on the Catalina's 34 forum I think and a long discussion there. The upshot is that in light winds a low aspect genoa of heavy cloth due to its size just collapses in fluky winds, whilst a smaller say 110% is more of a blade shape and sets better because the extra material on the leach isn't pulling the sail down or out of shape.

We have a similar problem sailing dead downwond with a 140% Genoa to the point I actually gybe downwind sailing 20 deg off so the sail doesn't constantly flap when the wind gets behind it. Our next Genoa will be smaller about 120%.

Pete
I think that is exactly the point. When it's out at 155% it's really hard to control the top and the bottom. The jib tracks just aren't long enough. If I wanted to experiment I could put some blocks on the toerail and see if it makes it better.

I could probably have it re-cut but I think it's time just to retire it or use it as a reserve or emergency sail.

Going downwind the 155 is way too big unless the wind is really blowing. In light winds it's constantly flapping. We often furl it down and use the spinnaker pole and go wing and wing.
Bigjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-08-2018, 03:06   #83
Moderator
 
JPA Cate's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: aboard, in Tasmania, Australia
Boat: Sayer 46' Solent rig sloop
Posts: 28,843
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigjim View Post
I think that is exactly the point. When it's out at 155% it's really hard to control the top and the bottom. The jib tracks just aren't long enough. If I wanted to experiment I could put some blocks on the toerail and see if it makes it better.

I could probably have it re-cut but I think it's time just to retire it or use it as a reserve or emergency sail.

Going downwind the 155 is way too big unless the wind is really blowing. In light winds it's constantly flapping. We often furl it down and use the spinnaker pole and go wing and wing.
The part about it flapping rather than filling in light airs suggests it is a heavy 155.

When we bought the boat before this one, it had a light and a heavy 165 on it. I could not lift the heavy 165 out of the forehatch. It was good hard on the wind to about 22 or so. We did not take it cruising.

Probably worth a chat with your sailmaker: they often have useful information if you have enough experience to evaluate what they say in terms of how you use the boat. It can be a difficult balance.

Ann
__________________
Who scorns the calm has forgotten the storm.
JPA Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boat, wind

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yanmar 3ym30 will not budge! Help...? jellis23 Engines and Propulsion Systems 22 09-04-2019 22:41
Why doesn't this boat have a steaming light? JBP General Sailing Forum 22 13-10-2017 08:11
Inverter light doesn't come on when alternator is going macbeth Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 10 03-08-2015 08:58
Need advice for sailing out of a slip in light winds OldFrog75 Seamanship & Boat Handling 61 24-06-2013 10:41

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:45.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.