Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-07-2018, 08:33   #61
Registered User
 
Bigjim's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Waukegan, IL
Boat: Columbia 10.7
Posts: 670
Images: 120
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
No he's a guy that is new at sailing. Then started racing without a lot of experience and wanted to do well...
Where are you getting the idea that I am "new" to sailing? I've been sailing for over 40 years. There is nothing in the OP that says I'm "new to sailing". The only thing that is new is my boat. I've owned 5 boats in my life but only one over 30'.

All my other boats were light-weight day sailers. The original question was asking for any tips or insights to why the boat won't move in light wind conditions. As it turns out, there is a southerly current on the western shore of Lake Michigan that is probably the culprit.

There's probably nothing we can do other than avoid light winds.

New sails may help a bit, the current ones are original to the boat and 40 years old. But that will have to wait until next year. We're still fixing up the boat since it's been sitting on the hard for 5 or more years.

Also, we are "racing" just for the fun of it. It's just an excuse to get out on the water and have some fun.
Bigjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2018, 09:05   #62
Registered User
 
Bigjim's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Waukegan, IL
Boat: Columbia 10.7
Posts: 670
Images: 120
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
Btw, was the OP using his racing sails or his cruising sails

Where is the wind on the OP's face? Same as before? Except the opposite side.

Two things can be learned here. Boat setup before every race and smooth tacks in light air. (don't slam the rudder or the boom)

Plus tons of other stuff.

And don't forget, in light air steer by your uppermost set of telltales
We only have ONE set of sails.

We are not racing for money and don't expect to win.

We are just doing it for the fun of sailing.

A Columbia 10.7 is NOT an Indy racer and will never win a race against any other 35 footer unless it is anchored, dragging a dinghy or towing another boat.

We know how to trim our sails and sail by our telltales. Everything appeared to be working fine. All the other boats we race against are fin keels and have little wetted surface under the water. We're dragging 5.5 feet and a full keel.

In winds above 5 knots we have been very competitive.
Bigjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2018, 09:58   #63
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 10,679
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigjim View Post
New sails may help a bit, the current ones are original to the boat and 40 years old. But that will have to wait until next year. We're still fixing up the boat since it's been sitting on the hard for 5 or more years.
You probably already know this with 40 years sailing experience, but old blown out sails usually work pretty good in 5 knot winds (when racing)
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2018, 10:08   #64
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 10,679
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigjim View Post
We only have ONE set of sails.

We are not racing for money and don't expect to win.

We are just doing it for the fun of sailing.

A Columbia 10.7 is NOT an Indy racer and will never win a race against any other 35 footer unless it is anchored, dragging a dinghy or towing another boat.

We know how to trim our sails and sail by our telltales. Everything appeared to be working fine. All the other boats we race against are fin keels and have little wetted surface under the water. We're dragging 5.5 feet and a full keel.

In winds above 5 knots we have been very competitive.
All the above it pretty much a given. I had read where you had recently refitted your boat.

Most folks that do that buy new sails last of all. And most are cruisers not racers.

I was making a point about racers vs cruisers and day sailors when I mentioned the racing sails. I bought my first 4 sailboats to race. In Florida, we'd race almost 10 months out of the year. you do learn quite a bit.

We're talking hard core screaming on the start line racing with "discussions" on the beach afterward.........seems totally ridiculous now but when you're in your early 40's with lots of testosterone ........

As far as the full keel, the main problem there is pointing ability. I have a Bristol 27 now so I know all about the lack of pointing on a full keel boat.

You may want to get a very large jib though to increase your sail area
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2018, 10:20   #65
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 10,679
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiveslide View Post
I did the math a while back and figured up the percentage of Thomm's posts in which he used the words "beach cats", it was around 11% if I remember correctly. He posted on them in a discussion that, again, had nothing to do with beach cats, so I got curious.

Percentage may be higher now, not doing it again.

Sorry for the drift.
Thanks.

That's very strange though that it's only 11% since I've had 4 beach cats (2 of which were new) and only one monohull and it's an ancient one ......(but a very tough one that has saved my butt quite a few times as has the equipment onboard especially the anchor!. If the boat and CF have taught me nothing else it has taught me about anchors! Oh, and btw, we don't anchor racing beach cats! Nor do we reef )

I had the beach cats over a 15 years period and the monohull these last 7 years so I'm still thinking I should be at least over 50% beach cats.

Some of it is nostalgia of course. I'm happy just to expose folks to what used to be a fun sport but sort of dying out these days.

I remember we had 82 boats on the line for the annual 100 mile RTI race in 1997. Boat were strung out in the Gulf from Narvarre all the way back almost to Destin at the start. Some boats finished at 4 pm others at 4 am the following day. White flag was at 0700. You had to be on the line at 0700

I need to get more power boat posts in though since I had like 6-8 of those over say 5-6 years period when I was year .....as in a teenager
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2018, 11:05   #66
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 10,679
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

And btw, it's not just beach cat racing that excites me, racing monohulls do also especially when you get to watch from the middle of the course (or a part of it)

Annapolis- Bermuda Race (Unique Experience)

So I sailed North from VA Beach/Norfolk on Friday. My outboard died (overheated) on the way out Little Creek, but I said the hell with it.

I'll have a problem trying to dock now or in a few days and I knew the wind was suppose to come up. (although it hadn't at this point early afternoon)

So after I crossed the shipping channel (Thimble Shoal Channel) just ahead of a ship, the wind picked up and I had the tide. My Bristol 27 at one point actually hit 7.8 knots in the deep channel near the anchored tankers close to Cape Charles.

Anyway, I sailed on up to maybe 10 miles or so North of Cape Charles (30 miles from where I started) where the land dips way in to the East. (near Smith Beach even with Eastville)

I sailed here because the wind was heavy SE and I found a nice calm spot west of the Eastern Shore, but with my luck during the night, the wind rotated to the SSW so I had bay waves knocking my boat around much of the night and got little sleep

So when I got up I carefully fixed coffee with my propane hot plate while the boat still pounded into the waves, but a least now the waves were head on and not on the beam.

After I got straight, I raised sail and sailed off my anchorage barely missing running aground as the wind was pushing me toward shore. Depth finder showed 1' under the keel as I made the turn.

So now I'm headed just North of West since my Bristol simply will not point. It's around 8 am or so.

A mile or so off after I get the autopilot hooked up and things get somewhat normal (decks are slippery etc) I get to look around and spot a sail. (blue hull/ maroon bottom seen when he got closer) His heading is different than most boats I see coming down the bay. (I didn't know there was a race happening!) He is headed to the spot where I was anchored which was maybe 200-300 yards off the shore

He carries his tack way too long and too close to shore for a cruiser (which is what I've been trying to learn to be after racing beach cats for 15 years, Florida Gulf Coast, beach cat racing heaven at least it was back in the day)

I can't really tell the boat type yet since he is a ways away so I'm thinking I wonder if I can point with this guy. I have position being west of him with a SSW wind. I know he's going fast but...….hey, I'm a racer guy or was

So I see he runs this tack way long, on the tracker for the race it shows he must have picked up some land effect breeze. I didn't know any of this at the time but when he tacked, I'm like. Nope, you can't point with that guy. I thought It might have been an old full keeler trying to get to Harbor Fest.

So now I'm sailing my Bristol (I love her lines) and see another boat with a black jib. He has a good line going as I'm trying to get SE to Kiptopeke where my son is meeting me with tools to repair the outboard. So I sail way west to line up with him then tack and as luck would have it there is a tanker coming up the bay and I'm going to cross too close so I tack back. This over 30 minutes or so.

There are 18 tankers anchored in this area. So after tacking twice to clear two moving tankers, I'm headed SE again but directly at another tanker at anchor so I have to sail off the wind a bit to avoid. I was so concerned with the tanker (he was blocking the wind and I didn't want the strong outgoing tide pushing me into him) that I never saw another race boat that crossed maybe 4 boat lengths in front of me. The boat was at least 40' plus.

So long story short (er), The first boat I saw was Tenacious which is a 44' sailboat funded by Congress for the Naval Academy.

https://www.usna.edu/Sailing/lectures/navy44.php

The one with the black jib that I thought I might follow his line may have been S/V Sly which is an XP44.

I'm not sure which boat crossed my bow (I was on starboard btw!) but it could have been Divide by Zero a Frers 45 (later I found out it wasn't. He was long gone by this time along with Sly and Tenacious)

Btw, the race started at 1330 On Friday from near Annapolis

Race Tracker.

Annapolis Bermuda Ocean Race Annapolis Bermuda Ocean Sailboat Race
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2018, 15:07   #67
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 10,679
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigjim View Post
As it turns out, there is a southerly current on the western shore of Lake Michigan that is probably the culprit.
Were all the boats stopped due to the current?

It looks like your PHRF (162-180) isn't bad so you should be able to move in 5 knots.

Mine is 240 on the Bristol 27. I did a few races with an Alberg 30 (phrf 228) though and always won boat for boat but he was a new sailor/cruiser and not an old racer guy

The Beach Cats were low 60's except for the Hobie 16's which were in the 70's. They couldn't point either. (no daggerboards)

The Pearson 10M I'm looking at now though has a PHRF of around 141 but the folks on Sailing Anarchy assure me that it cannot be sailed to that rating. It has a 29' waterline though but not a high sail area/disp ratio. It also has crispy sails and two spinnakers in reasonably good condition

I will need an autopilot though if I expect to raise and sail with the spinnaker singlehanded
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2018, 17:09   #68
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bumping around the Caribbean
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 4,625
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
I will need an autopilot though if I expect to raise and sail with the spinnaker singlehanded

Why? Itís not as hard as you think.
__________________
"Having a yacht is reason for being more cheerful than most." -Kurt Vonnegut
Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-07-2018, 17:13   #69
Registered User
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 25,620
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

I'm thinking you need to go over the rules for properly flying the iron reacher....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-07-2018, 16:26   #70
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 10,679
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
I'm thinking you need to go over the rules for properly flying the iron reacher....
Yeah, Beach Cats are so efficient it's quite easy to sail without an engine.

I've completed five 100 mile races and maybe thirty 20 to 30 mile races offshore and never worried about getting back due to lack of wind. The longest 100 mile race last 20 hours because the wind died totally for 3-5 hours




Later with the spinnakers, light wind was even easier on the downwind.




With this Bristol 27 though, it's very important to have an engine especially if you are on a schedule

I was 6 hours crossing the 20 mile wide bay a couple weeks ago due to opposing tide and wind. I had almost 2 gallons of fuel onboard so I thought I was set

I would have run out if not for a nice 12-16 knot wind out of the East (on the beam) when I was about 8-10 miles out that allowed me to shut off the engine and save some gas.

I sailed to within 4-5 miles of the creek and then had to motor. I had maybe a quart left when I got in my slip. The wind totally died near the shipping channel
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2018, 08:34   #71
Registered User
 
ssteakley's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Seattle
Boat: Catalina, 1998 Mark II , 36
Posts: 17
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Also dive and check the hull. It is not unheard of a prankster, especially for a newbie, to hang a Home Depot bucket of some other thing off the keel. I agree with those above to tune the rig.
ssteakley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2018, 09:21   #72
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central California
Boat: Samson C Mist 32
Posts: 680
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

How about an experiment to answer Thomm 25's question: Were all the boats stopped by the current? Get some similar boats to sail along with you in the problem area in light wind. It
Steve Bean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2018, 11:18   #73
Registered User
 
thomm225's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Lower Chesapeake Bay Area
Boat: Bristol 27
Posts: 10,679
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bean View Post
How about an experiment to answer Thomm 25's question: Were all the boats stopped by the current? Get some similar boats to sail along with you in the problem area in light wind.
That's a good idea, and also make it a practice race.

That's a very good way to learn racing especially if you can find a similar boat to practice with (with a similar PHRF rating)
thomm225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2018, 02:21   #74
Registered User

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Dubai
Boat: Archambault Surprise 25ft
Posts: 2
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

My friend used to own a Columbia 9.7 in Dubai (a real eye catcher by the way!) and we experienced similar issues during very light winds. It was also obvious that over 8 knts of wind, she sailed better on one tack than the other so the issue would be worse in very light winds. We knew the problem was likely to do with the rigging set-up. We made sure the mast was standing straight by releasing the tension on the backstay and using the mainsail halyard to measure the length of the shrouds. The mast was indeeded leaning on one side and one cap shroud was 2 inches longer than the other. We also removed the belly in the mast causing unecessary depowering. I would say that a cruising boat should have a straight mast at all times. The depowering in high winds is done by tensioning the backstay. The tension of the shrouds will be higher than on a fractional rig where you will adjust depending on the wind conditions. On a cruiser the shrouds need to be tighter but not too tight so it is a case of try and test. It will involve setting up the rig and going out at sea in winds of 10 knots and no tide or waves and measure that both tacks are equal and that the boat can point adequately and achieve about 50% of the apparent wind when going upwind. If this is the case, the boat will be able to sail in light wind too albeit not as well since it is a heavy boat. We had to test the boat out twice to reach the correct tension and then made notes using a tensioning gauge. From time to time especially after many sails in high winds, it is worth re-measuring to compare with the notes and adjust accordingly. I hope your problem can be sorted out soon.
fjcruiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-07-2018, 14:36   #75
Registered User
 
Bigjim's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Waukegan, IL
Boat: Columbia 10.7
Posts: 670
Images: 120
Re: Boat doesn't budge in light winds

Quote:
Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
...

You may want to get a very large jib though to increase your sail area
We already have a 150%+ genoa and it helps but don't think a bigger one would help much. The current one already gets hung up when we tack and there's not much wind.

As for the speed of the wind, we're talking 5 knots or less. Above 5 knots we don't have this issue.

A couple of weeks ago the committee boat dropped the finish mark and the anchor line hung up and did not drop fully so it could set on the bottom. It was another light wind race and the finish mark started to drift south. By the time we rounded the windward mark the finish mark had drifted nearly halfway to the windward mark. Obviously, the current was dragging the mark at a speed of a half knot or more.

We have to fight this current when sailing north in light winds and if we can only get 1-3 knots in speed, it may be a fruitless endeavor.
Bigjim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boat, wind

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yanmar 3ym30 will not budge! Help...? jellis23 Engines and Propulsion Systems 22 09-04-2019 22:41
Why doesn't this boat have a steaming light? JBP General Sailing Forum 22 13-10-2017 08:11
Inverter light doesn't come on when alternator is going macbeth Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 10 03-08-2015 08:58
Need advice for sailing out of a slip in light winds OldFrog75 Seamanship & Boat Handling 61 24-06-2013 10:41

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:57.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.