Best spot for spinnaker bag

[FabioC]

What's the best place to keep the spinnaker bag while going upwind (i.e., with the spinnaker in it)?

Our boat is a 35', and the spinnaker we use the most is an asymmetric with an ATN spinnaker sock (so the bag is fairly bulky).

We have been experimenting with different ways to keep the bag on deck while going upwind, but still have not found the ideal spot (or spots) so that the bag does not interfere with the jib or jib sheets while tacking or sailing upwind.

We tend to keep the bag just forward of the mast, but it is bulky enough to get tangled with the jib sheets in a tack. If we tie it to the lifelines, then the jib cannot be sheeted in enough in many conditions (I suppose we can move it to windward on each tack, but that seems like a lot of work). If we keep the bag just astern of the mast, it is tall enough that it gets in the way of the vang and is heavy enough to interfere with the control lines if it sits on top of them. We can bring it more astern, just forward of the cockpit, but it is a big bag and a royal pain to move it around the deck for long distances...

Anyway, what do people do? How do you best manage the spinnaker bag while going upwind?

Thank you!

[Sailmonkey]

What sort of leg length are you working with here?

When we’re in “race” mode, funny thing to say for an Allied seawind, the bag is brought up and sheets/Halyard attached on the last beat.

When we’re just cruising, the bag lives in the locker until we turn down and take our time setting the sail.

[FabioC]

Thank you for the reply.
Unfortunately, for us keeping the spinnaker in the locker or downstairs until the last moment is not really an option because the bag does not easily fit through the hatch, and even bringing it up the companionway is a bit of a struggle (because of the funnel of the socket, which makes the bag quite wide and unforgiving). Same issue with keeping the bag downstairs and hoisting it through the forward hatch, the funnel of the socket gets in the way.

Our only option is to prepare the spinnaker bag on deck before we leave the dock, or at least before we need it, and leave it on deck until we are done for the day. Hence, the issue of managing the bag while going upwind. We are still not doing it well.

Thank you!

[Snowpetrel]

Just last weekend we saw a assy, and sock washed off the bow of a nearby boat on a reaching leg in strong winds. Made quite a mess and took them a fair while to sort out. Luckily it hadn't caught around the rudder or prop, so make sure its well lashed down wherever it is.

Prehaps taking off the sock and flying it traditionally when racing is the way to go. Good skills to learn, and good teamwork training.

[Snowpetrel]

Another idea is to store the bag just forward of the mast and rig diverter lines from the gooseneck forward and outboard to prevent the headsail sheets and clew fouling the bag.

[FabioC]

Thank you for the reply.

Diverting lines are a great idea. I had thought about something along those lines, no pun intended, but did not quite come up with a practical way to do it. Perhaps just adding straps to the bag connecting the top of the bag to the deck would serve a similar purpose and prevent the most common scenario of it getting tangled with the jib sheets (the sheets get caught by the bag and make their way under the bag during the tack).

I'll fiddle with the concept some more this weekend.

I also tend to agree with the other reply, the conventional way of flying the chute without the sock may be the way to go after all. We used to do it that way in our previous boat. The sock is supposed to make things much easier, especially shorthanded (it actually does, at least hoisting it, there is an obvious advantage in having the sock), but we certainly have not mastered it yet... For us, the jury is still out on whether the sock is worth the trouble overall (jibing the chute with the sock is way more difficult than without the sock, since you have to keep the funnel away from the forestay all the time, which is very difficult in heavy wind...).

[jrbogie]

socks are more trouble than they're worth as I see it. when I bought my last asymmetrical spinnaker I ordered a top down furling system that I've had trouble with because of my masthead rig so I just launch the shute out of the forward hatch until I work out the furling problem. i'll never have a spinnaker sock again.

[thinwater]

I've done all of these things. Everyone is right. I had two boats where I believed sallys were a waste, and then I got one where it was perfect.

Is the bell really so large and your forward hatch so small that it does not fit? Have you tried hoisting right out of the hatch? That was the best answer for my PDQ. One advantage of the sally, by the way, is that it can serve as the bag (I never used the bag on the PDQ--one less thing).

It may also be worth shortening the sock. I find it best if it does NOT come all the way down, only within 6 feet of the deck. This solves the jibing problem and makes attaching the lines easier. It also takes less space at the top and allows the bell to be a little smaller.

Experiment.

[mottseng]

You have a 35' boat.....how big is this bag that it won't fit down the hatch. We have the same asymetrical with sock and it sits comfortably without interference just forward of the mast behind the baby stay (clipped to the stay). If I had to it would easy fit down the forward hatch into the v-berth.

[goodoldwoody]

Hi
Take the kite up there just before you need it.
Why not get rid of the sock, use a smaller bag and manage the kite without the junk. You'll find it will be a lot easier a lot lighter and keeping it simple you may find you will have a lot less trouble. Plus you can use a lot smaller bag.
Most people think that the sock makes it easy but we say NOT on our boat not.
We use a tack line and a snap hook on the tack. Pulling the kite (Assy) up out of the bag is easy. Getting it down, fire the snap hook on the tack, the kite will stream out downwind to Leeward while someone hauls in the sheet and gathers in the foot then someone else controls the halyard while the kite is shoved into the bag. That's two crew, if you've got three crew then the extra person can help shove it in the bag. If it's got a lot of wind in it when you're dropping it, ease the halyard more and let it fly out over the water as the crew gather it in. If you don't have enough crew don't put it up. If you're not racing then race your boat and get plenty of practice and watch others too. Yachts seem to be able to get into a hell of a lot of trouble but still not sink.
If you're racing try this method as you approach the Leeward mark you can even drop it into the cockpit (all over the skipper) as you come up on the wind. Keep the pressure up! But above all try not to yell or swear!
No point yelling as your crew are actually trying to win the race. Let them work it out. They enjoy that.
BTW we have extra straps with Velcro on them on the bag, to hold it up and open for the drop, so that we can setup the deck bag on deck so that it's open ready to receive the kite. We setup the bag between the handrails on the cabin top and the lifelines. Also you can use your tweeker to hold the sheet in position at the point along the deck wehere you want to drop it. If you're running a bit square then the mainsail provides a bit of shelter while you drop the kite in its wind shadow. (We find that best if it's blowing really hard). That makes it real easy.

Cheers
Woody

[Snowpetrel]

The letterbox drop and a martin breaker are a few useful tools to make it pretty easy for a small crew to drop a big sail.

[Nikki S]

we just have the spinnaker in the sock, in the bag, strapped to life-lines half way up the fore-deck, with or without sheets and halyard attached, depending on when we are expecting to go downwind......it's no more in the way of a tightly sheeted jib than the lifelines are.... but i guess different boats are different...... we like the sock because even the kids can drop it

[jackdale]

I once lost a gennaker overboard when it came out of the bag while strapped on deck. . I stow them in a locker or below.

Once stung, twice forewarned.

[sand6000]

After 50 years of mostly racing but now cruising I can confidently say that the best method is to fasten the bag to the leeward shroud at deck level. If it is needed on the other side then you simply undo the clips from the spinnaker and clip them to one another, including halyard. You then pull the sheets and halyard around the forestay to the other side, take the bag over and clip them up again. The first part of this operation means you don't have to leave the cockpit. The second part you only go as far as the shrouds so never need to go to the bow.
When you drop the kite you take firm controll of the leeward sheet and ease the windward brace as you gather it to leeward as you lower the halyard back into the cockpit. Undo the clips from the spinnaker and clip them all together and pull them all to the leeward shroud. Using a barber hauler helps as it keeps the sheets under control at all times.