Best book (s) on advanced sail trim

[KetoNomad]

Met a guy a while ago who had a pretty decent sized book just about sail trim and in the course of a day with next to no wind shifts he was constantly adjusting things where I would be content to sit and sip my tea...Must be missing out on something.

Maybe it'd just be good for me to know how to get the most out of my sails as I'm cheap and prefer not to buy diesel

Anyone know of any worthwhile books for cruisers that don't want to use their engines?

[UNCIVILIZED]

Start out with both Ivar Dedekam, & North (Sails). The explanations behind which are here --> http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ml#post2329948

[Scot McPherson]

advanced sail trim is for racers who have boats with adjustable mast rake, travelers abaft the cockpit etc etc.


Sure you can get a 1/4knot more out of your boat maybe by shaping your sails just so, but for most cruisers, that's too much work. Now if you really want to do it for the fun of it, then be my guest. You can adjust the shape of your sails even without having all of the adjustable bits, but personally for me, so long as I am moving decently along and my telltales are in the right spot and I am not luffing, I am perfectly happy. I also tend to be gentle on my sails because I want them to last, so unless I am pointing high, I don't push the sails very hard.

[Stu Jackson]

I've read most of them.

This is one I highly recommend.

https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod...im+Users+Guide

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Scot McPherson

advanced sail trim is for racers who have boats with adjustable mast rake, travelers abaft the cockpit etc etc.

Sure you can get a 1/4knot more out of your boat maybe by shaping your sails just so, but for most cruisers, that's too much work. Now if you really want to do it for the fun of it, then be my guest. You can adjust the shape of your sails even without having all of the adjustable bits, but personally for me, so long as I am moving decently along and my telltales are in the right spot and I am not luffing, I am perfectly happy. I also tend to be gentle on my sails because I want them to last, so unless I am pointing high, I don't push the sails very hard.

Most of the finer points of sail trim can actually be accomplished with very little effort. And without leaving the cockpit.
You tune your jib lead position much as you do the main traveler, with the pull of a line.
Adjust your halyard tension, or cunningham.
Tune your mast bend with the babystay, backstay, & runners.
Tweak the outhaul, & vang.

That's most of it, & it's done not just to gain a little extra speed. But rather to reduce heeling, & pitching, along with cutting down on how much leeway you're making. All of which makes the ride a lot more comfortable, while significantly boosting your VMG.

Can you get by without it? Sure. Same as you can running the tires on your car 10psi below optimum. Handling & mileage suck, but they get you there, well, so long as you don't corner too hard. And when you do corner, your (sporty) Acura feels llike an overweight Cadillac with 10yr old springs.

To put it another way, where else in your life do you purposefully settle for mediocrity at best? Why? And would you do the same on say the golf course? Or do you want to be the guy with the killer handicap?

[gjordan]

Keto, I recently bought about 200 lbs of boating books. Many racing and trim books. I will go to my shop and see if I can give you a list of the racing books that you might be interested in. I am not interested in racing, but some racing experience,education will make a better cruiser out of anyone. I will see what I have and PM you later today. Grant.

[KetoNomad]

So you don't think I should bother? I want to go easy on my boat too but it'll be a 27' boat with a full keel with the fore end cut away so I need all the help I can get upwind

[KetoNomad]

Originally Posted by gjordan

Keto, I recently bought about 200 lbs of boating books. Many racing and trim books. I will go to my shop and see if I can give you a list of the racing books that you might be interested in. I am not interested in racing, but some racing experience,education will make a better cruiser out of anyone. I will see what I have and PM you later today. Grant.

Hey thanks, I appreciate that

I looked on google books but didn't find much. Would prefer digital books simply cause real books might have to get left behind. Fingers crossed

[KetoNomad]

Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED

Can you get by without it? Sure. Same as you can running the tires on your car 10psi below optimum. Handling & mileage suck, but they get you there, well, so long as you don't corner too hard. And when you do corner, your (sporty) Acura feels llike an overweight Cadillac with 10yr old springs

Well said, Sir.

[Suijin]

Originally Posted by Scot McPherson

advanced sail trim is for racers who have boats with adjustable mast rake, travelers abaft the cockpit etc etc.


Sure you can get a 1/4knot more out of your boat maybe by shaping your sails just so, but for most cruisers, that's too much work. Now if you really want to do it for the fun of it, then be my guest. You can adjust the shape of your sails even without having all of the adjustable bits, but personally for me, so long as I am moving decently along and my telltales are in the right spot and I am not luffing, I am perfectly happy. I also tend to be gentle on my sails because I want them to last, so unless I am pointing high, I don't push the sails very hard.

I disagree with pretty much everything you said.

"Advanced" sail trim is about understanding how sails work and what the various controls available to you do. It's not just for racers. My 25k lb. ocean truck has adjustable backstay, vang, mid boom traveller, outhaul, cunningham, adjustable jib cars, barber hauler, and of course halyards and sheets. That's not an uncommon array of sail controls.

Once you understand the finer points of sail trim...like shape, twist, the slot, the relationship between the jib, main, and rudder, etc., and how the various controls impact all of those, you have many more options at your disposal to meet a wide range of conditions.

Wind is building but you don't want to reef? Want to point higher? Flatten your sail sails. Want better shape from your genoa on a broad reach? Pull out the barber hauler. Want more helm to better balance the boat? Raise the traveller. It goes on and on.

And where this notion that properly trimming sails is hard on them comes from, I don't know. That's just a weird idea. In fact, I'd argue the opposite. And really good sail trim vs. "average" sail trim is going to get you a lot more than 1/4 knot.

There's a saying among racers that your average racer can sail well in moderate conditions. It's the sailor who can keep the boat moving in light air, and control the boat well in heavy air that is going to win races consistently.

I think one of the best books on sail trim, in general, whether for racing or cruising, is North U.'s "TRIM". Extensive and detailed but clear and easy to read.

[Matsubob]

"Sail Power" by Wallace Ross is my favorite. I kept one on the boat and one at home. It is a comprehensive book on how sail cloth is made, types of rigging, how to set up and maintain standing rigging, how to understand the different types of stress applied to different areas of the rig and how to avoid failure. Very good! (don't know if it is still in print)
And, yes, I bought it because I was racing my 16' dinghy but the knowledge gained has helped through all points of sailing, even on the bigger boat. It isn't about speed only; it is about arriving efficiently and safely!

[tomfl]

Part of the problem you will have is the disconnect between theory and practice. I suspect the sails on your boat are not in what I will call new condition; something a lot of books take for granted. As a result you will be trimming for a different sail than a book might be expecting.

One thing I have noticed is that once you get a sail basically trimmed well looking at a GPS knot meter when playing with trim is the best way to determine what is working best for you. More importantly what you are doing to get the best speed may not be what the book says.

There are lots of vids on youtube of foils (which is what a sail is) in a wind chamber with smoke to show just how turbulent the wind is as it goes around a foil. One of the best ways to get the most power from a sail is to minimize turbulence. There is a famous story about how on his death bed Albert Einstein said "I have two questions for God, why turbulence and why relativity; I am optimistic about getting an answer to the latter.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by KetoNomad

So you don't think I should bother? I want to go easy on my boat too but it'll be a 27' boat with a full keel with the fore end cut away so I need all the help I can get upwind

You'll be able to generate a little speed with good sail trim, but you can forget about pointing with a boat like that

Everything about it is wrong for pointing.

I know because I have a similar boat. (with new main and newish jib(s))

I'm a bit spoiled though because my last beach cat with it's 4' daggerboards, high aspect main, and high aspect rudders would come close to about 30 degrees off the wind......

On the other hand, this old Bristol 27 can handle some crappy conditions pretty nicely.........without a lot of effort

[S/V Alchemy]

Originally Posted by Matsubob

"Sail Power" by Wallace Ross is my favorite. I kept one on the boat and one at home. It is a comprehensive book on how sail cloth is made, types of rigging, how to set up and maintain standing rigging, how to understand the different types of stress applied to different areas of the rig and how to avoid failure. Very good! (don't know if it is still in print)
And, yes, I bought it because I was racing my 16' dinghy but the knowledge gained has helped through all points of sailing, even on the bigger boat. It isn't about speed only; it is about arriving efficiently and safely!

Another vote for "Sail Power", despite how old (nearly 45 years) it is. I like to "cruise fast" and got most of my sailing chops from club racing. "Sail Power", which was the same age as my first boat, a 33 foot racer with a long J and other IOR attributes, explains simply and yet scientifically the various sails and trim options and WHY they work; how to work out polar diagrams and how to know when maximum trim has been achieved. It discusses now-unused sail types and techniques (like "barber-hauling") but that doesn't matter once you "get" the way they help to move the boat.

[UNCIVILIZED]

Ever heard the expression "When you stop getting better, you stop being good"? It's very, very true. And consider this, those folks who stop paying attention to sail trim, little by little, over time. What else do they quit paying attention to, & what other skills do they lose due to disuse?

Will they wake up 1/2hr in advance of a weather front as was common for them 5yrs before? 10min later noting that the baro's dropped 3mb. Will they still be able to accurately forecast the weather, sans radio & other external "crutches", almost sans conscious thought? Not just for where they are, but where the highs & lows that'll affect them days hence will be. And thus be able to, or not, properly position themselves to best take advantage of a weather system, or avoid a storm?

"Little things" like that creep up on you much like aging does, or that extra 20lbs you're carrying. It's not an overnight occurrence, or even something that happens in a month. But rather the cumulative effects of 1,001+ little decisions. And anyone who says that such isn't the case is lying to themselves (& everyone else) about how full of BS they are.

The reason I practice so many of the little tricks that I learned over the years when racing, or were taught to me at 15 when I was learning to navigate for real. With a watch, a sextant, a compass, & an RDF. Is that they keep me sharp. Not sharp only on those (afore) mentioned skills, but also consciously, & unconsciously, on so many of the other little ones I've picked up. It's a package deal.

Use'em or lose'em. Assuming you ever had'em. And once you quit putting in the efforts to learn new ones, the old ones fade as well.


PS: All that stuff adds up to seamanship, & the foundations there of. Plain & simple. To quote a commercial, "Is it in you".