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goboatingnow · 04-01-2011, 19:17

Not much boatman , we've all had that kind of experience with newbie crew wanting to run for cover irrespective . !!

I remember being called a " complete lunatic" by one crew after one particularly challenging crossing of Biscay yet two days later off Portugal with the sun out and dolphins playing he conceded that " there was something in this sailing lark after all "

Dave

Dave

rover88 · 04-01-2011, 19:30

Obviously those who deride the military style of leadership are not speaking from first hand experience. As one of the oldest professions in the world, the military has figured out a few things over the past centuries. Leadership principles were the same in Roman Legions as they are today - probably because they work. They are not the "Captain Blye" style, nor the gung ho John Wayne movie style. And just because not every aspect applies, does not mean the principles cannot be adapted to the small sailing vessel.

Out for an afternoon of fun or sailing across the ocean - bad things can and do happen. I have little use for "consensus based team management" theory when the **** hits the fan. A through hull has busted.....the boat is sinking fast.......shall we form a focus group to study the best way to select a committee to determine the seating arrangements in the life raft? Then we'll vote on who is best qualified to set off the Epirb.

**boatman61** · 04-01-2011, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by rover88

Out for an afternoon of fun or sailing across the ocean - bad things can and do happen. I have little use for "consensus based team management" theory when the **** hits the fan. A through hull has busted.....the boat is sinking fast.......shall we form a focus group to study the best way to select a committee to determine the seating arrangements in the life raft? Then we'll vote on who is best qualified to set off the Epirb.

Don't be silly.... you grab the best swimmer and throw him over the side with a wooden plug and mallet.... what are you.... a Union Leader or something...

PS; Ex RN.. father Major 9th Gurkhas (Chindits) family military going back 150yrs in India...

goboatingnow · 04-01-2011, 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by rover88

Obviously those who deride the military style of leadership are not speaking from first hand experience. As one of the oldest professions in the world, the military has figured out a few things over the past centuries. Leadership principles were the same in Roman Legions as they are today - probably because they work. They are not the "Captain Blye" style, nor the gung ho John Wayne movie style. And just because not every aspect applies, does not mean the principles cannot be adapted to the small sailing vessel.

Out for an afternoon of fun or sailing across the ocean - bad things can and do happen. I have little use for "consensus based team management" theory when the **** hits the fan. A through hull has busted.....the boat is sinking fast.......shall we form a focus group to study the best way to select a committee to determine the seating arrangements in the life raft? Then we'll vote on who is best qualified to set off the Epirb.

Firstly captain Blythe was an excellent royal navy capitan with an exemplary record and the exact opposite to what the movies showed.

Secondly designing a leader ship style around an " Action man" style as you describe is the worst sort of skipper. Nobody is suggesting indecisiveness , but the vast vast majority of leisure sails pass off with any serious drama and the success to being a good capitan is to manage the crew not order them. Team building and consensus help foster inclusiveness and a feeling of common purpose. That does not preclude direct decision making in extremis . But it's not the way to s happy crew under normal circumstances. ( see difference between cruising crew and racing crew)

I would question the military experience , a primary tenant of being in the military is obedience. This carries the force of law. The same situation does not exist in a leisure crew. They must be shown that your goals and their goals coincide.

Dave

**atoll** · 04-01-2011, 20:07

selected reading:mien kamph and the blyth voyage.

instill plenty of fear in the crew,with the understanding not to panic unless they see the captain panic.

have a good auto pilot and wind vane and be prepared to single hand.....................
works every time.

**boatman61** · 04-01-2011, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by atoll

selected reading:mien kamph and the blyth voyage.

instill plenty of fear in the crew,with the understanding not to panic unless they see the captain panic.

have a good auto pilot and wind vane and be prepared to single hand.....................
works every time.

What ho.... a fellow Dartmouth chappie.... ROFL
Actually I was at HMS Ganges.....

**atoll** · 04-01-2011, 20:34

actually french foreign legion,mon vieux chef

dcan39 · 04-01-2011, 20:51

Hello Drew23,

The airline industry long ago developed a Crew Resource Management (CRM) training program that helps develop a "Captain, First Officer, Crew" team that works together to make critical decisions. The fundamental principal is that no-one, especially the Captain, is "all knowing" and that decisions require input from all resources available, including other crew members, weather analysts, navigation experts, etc. Final decisions are, of course, always left to the Captain.

It all revolves around mutual respect for everyone's skill, knowledge, experience, capability, etc. Chances are you will have lots of help available, but if you find you are the only person on board with these attributes, you'll need to make sure everyone else backs down and allows you to perform your "Captain" duties.

If you'd like more information about CRM training let me know.

**atoll** · 04-01-2011, 21:09

i all ways find a good storm really instills confidence in the captain from the crew,especially if they are novices.
trick is never never show fear,even if you are shitting your self.......................

Pelagic · 04-01-2011, 21:10

I am a very different captain when I have a professional crew and paying guests on a small cruise ship or a $80m Superyacht, than when I am sailing my own Stargazer with friends and one paid deck hand, but the basic philosophy remains the same:

You manage your assets and goals with the same attention to detail that will demonstrate to all on board, that you are the best choice to lead them!

Crew and guests are your biggest asset so use them wisely without ever taking them for granted and develop separate conversations for; clarity, action, completion and acknowledgement, so that communication is clear.

Laugh with them at “recreational complaining” but never indulge in it yourself.

Show them you are a human who counts on them to cover your back, as your actions demonstrate that you have theirs.

A good leader will inspire and communicate, but never looks back to see if anyone is following. They just are.

JDGreenlee · 04-01-2011, 21:11

This I told my children, now grown. Some I heard from my father. Others I picked up along the way. I value them; you may or may not.

Leadership is having enough energy to anticipate events and act in an ethical effective manner. Continuously ask, "What's next?" And then do something about it. Don't drift.

Leaders help teammates achieve their best, and protect the weak. They make it a habit to be aware. Leaders have good judgement - that is, they can quickly and accurately size up the value of something or someone. And they can smell a rat. Leaders trust, but verify.

Leadership means "doing something about the situation," i.e., summoning the discipline (or fortitude) to act. That is, when you detect something wrong or out of place, summon the will to act. Investigate the odd instead of shrugging your shoulders - it is indicative of something amiss and needs action. That is leadership.

Anticipate continuously and take appropriate, commensurate, timely action - keep your head in the game, play to win. Leaders shouldn't drift - remember Omar Sharif chastizing Peter O'Toole for dozing on his camel in "Lawrence of Arabia?" Be alert. Think! Or rather force yourself to think - even when you're tired, hungry, or hurt. What's next, and then what? You cannot lead if your teammates are frequently a step ahead of you.

Leaders care for teammates, doubly in harm's way. Stress safety and emergency preparedness. Certainly be bold, but make sure you know where the fire exits are located. ALWAYS have a contingency plan, or two. "The best-laid schemes o' mice an' men gang aft agley..." - Burns

Leaders are responsible for the safety and well-being of their teammates. That means willing yourself to act when it is all but impossible. Don't give up when on the water; as long as there is pain, you're alive, and that is a good thing. "...keep your head when all about you are losing theirs..." - Kipling.

Show consistency between voice and action. Be clear that you will stick by a teammate as long as he is right, but part with him when he is wrong; leaders do not defend the absurd. But refrain from correcting your teammates in public. Tennyson phrased it: "...by slow prudence to make mild a rugged people, and thro' soft degrees bring them to the useful and good..." And admit when you are wrong.

My assertion is: If you can do at least three of these things very well, and the others well enough, then you will gain the respect of others. Good luck.

P.S. Christopher wrote of William F. Buckley in "My Old Man and the Sea", "Great men always have too much sail up."

rover88 · 04-01-2011, 21:32

Hey Dave:Where in that post to you see "action man style" referenced or even alluded to? When it comes to leadership styles, what do you actually know of military leadership training? If you have been through OCS or even PLDC then you are qualified to critique. If not, you are simply blowing hot air deriding something of which you have no real knowledge. And the Blythe reference was meant to me taken in the literary - not literal - sense.

Hey Boatman61: It's spelled S A R C A S M

rover88 · 04-01-2011, 21:37

Hey JDGreenlee: Very well said!!

**atoll** · 04-01-2011, 22:09

some very good posts on leadership from pelegig and greenlea and dave but you are all assuming that the captain actually knows what he is doing.

have seen this formula applied many times by people who own a boat,with enough knowledge to be dangerous,not only to themselves but to their crew and any other hard objects around.

first rule of being a captain is be competent..............

second shout louder.................tic