Automatic bilge pumps - insurance condition

[Jhclay]

In seeking new insurance cover, I note that one insurer requires an automatic bilge pump to be installed and active on boats that are kept at swing moorings.

My boat has an automatic bilge pump but it is wired through the electrical panel and my practice is to switch off all power when I leave the boat on the mooring. The boat manual tells me to do that.

I am aware that modern production boats have their bilge pumps wired so that they remain active when all other power is off. I am also aware that more boats sink while at mooring than on the high seas.

I want to minimize my risk but I am not sure which is greater: the risk of fire or damage from an electrical short or a burnt out pump, or the risk of sinking from an uncontrolled leak. I can and do check the boat regularly but I do not profess to know enough about its electrics to be confident that there are no issues waiting to surface.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

[C420sailor]

A properly fused, high quality installation direct to the battery is very unlikely to cause a catastrophic fire.

The odds of a leak sinking your boat are much higher, IMO.

The insurance company wouldn’t require the pump if it increased the odds of them having to pay out.

[Uncle Bob]

^^^^^^^^^^^^
This....
There are a number of things that are always on in my boat,
* bilge pump hard wired via fuse to the house bank
* an always on circuit for radio memory and ability to leave fridge running, each appropriately independantly fused
* alarm system that will alert me of problems via sms, also appropriately fused.
The boat lives on a swing mooring in the Sydney region.

[rslifkin]

Definitely keep the pumps powered. To me, any boat unattended in the water without sufficient automatic bilge pumps is a big risk.

[gonesail]

if the bilge pump catches fire while trying to prevent your boat from sinking .. the fire will be extinguished when the boat continues to sink

[rwidman]

Turning off electrical power to your boat's bilge pump while is is sitting in the water (on a mooring or anywhere) is a very bad idea.

The bilge pump should have power at all times, be connected with the appropriate size wires and have protection from the appropriate sized fuse. No exceptions.

[TrentePieds]

All that needs to be said has been said by others, to wit: ALWAYS keep your automatic bilge pump(s) ACTIVE while the boat is afloat and unattended, whether on a mooring or in her home slip.

What has NOT been said is that the task before you, as per your opening post, is NOT that of keeping the boat afloat if she takes water while you are away. The task before you is to satisfy a REQUIREMENT laid down by your insurance carrier as a term of the insurance CONTRACT.

Meet that requirement, and all others laid down as a "wording" in your insurance policy (which be sure to read and understand), then, in the event your boat sinks, the underwriter must comply with HIS obligations, namely to pay to you the "hull value" of the boat. If you have NOT met every single requirement that is on you and, in addition, exercised "ordinary prudence" e.g. by keeping bilge pumps powered at all times, the underwriter is within his rights if he refuses to pay up.

If the circuit powering the pump(s) is appropriately fused (at the supply end of the positive feed), there cannot be a fire.

It is, IMO, a fiction that the sorts of bilge pumps that are installed in modern yachts can keep the boat afloat for very long if she springs a serious leak. So bilge pumps are, from that perspective, useless, and you can, essentially, forget about them.

HOWEVER, when an underwriter requires pump(s) to be active at all times you would not be doing yourself any favours if you don't see to it that they are!

All the best

TrentePieds

[Clivevon]

Originally Posted by TrentePieds

All that needs to be said has been said by others, to wit: ALWAYS keep your automatic bilge pump(s) ACTIVE while the boat is afloat and unattended, whether on a mooring or in her home slip.

What has NOT been said is that the task before you, as per your opening post, is NOT that of keeping the boat afloat if she takes water while you are away. The task before you is to satisfy a REQUIREMENT laid down by your insurance carrier as a term of the insurance CONTRACT.

Meet that requirement, and all others laid down as a "wording" in your insurance policy (which be sure to read and understand), then, in the event your boat sinks, the underwriter must comply with HIS obligations, namely to pay to you the "hull value" of the boat. If you have NOT met every single requirement that is on you and, in addition, exercised "ordinary prudence" e.g. by keeping bilge pumps powered at all times, the underwriter is within his rights if he refuses to pay up.

If the circuit powering the pump(s) is appropriately fused (at the supply end of the positive feed), there cannot be a fire.

It is, IMO, a fiction that the sorts of bilge pumps that are installed in modern yachts can keep the boat afloat for very long if she springs a serious leak. So bilge pumps are, from that perspective, useless, and you can, essentially, forget about them.

HOWEVER, when an underwriter requires pump(s) to be active at all times you would not be doing yourself any favours if you don't see to it that they are!

All the best

TrentePieds

Sums it up nicely. Don't forget also that, unless you are connected to shore power or on board to start the engine to keep the batteries charged, your bilge pump will sooner or later flatten your battery & stop working so the boat will eventually sink anyway. But if your insurers insist on it, better fit it.

[girdasso]

My insurer in Sydney requires me to have an automatic bilge pump wired correctly with fuse to remain powered at all times. I would imagine other insurance companies would also.

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Jhclay

I am aware that modern production boats have their bilge pumps wired so that they remain active when all other power is off. I am also aware that more boats sink while at mooring than on the high seas.

I’m not sure how “modern” that way of wiring bilge pumps is. Our 1973 Bertram’s 12 volt panel is wired that way, and according to the manual, has been that way since the factory.

The panel has two large 12 volt switches that power everything except the four bilge pumps. The bilge pump switches are above the main 12 volt switches, everything else is below them.



We find it to be a very handy way to be able to cut the 12 volt power, but leave the bilge pumps on, when the boat is unattended in the slip.

[rwidman]

My insurance policy says nothing at all about bilge pumps. Not a word.

That doesn't mean I would turn them off though. Not a chance of that.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by Jhclay

My boat has an automatic bilge pump but it is wired through the electrical panel and my practice is to switch off all power when I leave the boat on the mooring. The boat manual tells me to do that.
.

Whoever wrote that is an idiot. Or you simply misunderstand - shutting off power should never include power to the bilge pump(s).

[Jhclay]

Thanks for the feedback. Very helpful.

A few comments in response:
- Not all the policies I looked at specifically require an automatic bilge pump. My broker contends that even where they do not, failing to have one might breach an insured's obligation to take all reasonable steps to prevent loss or damage. I would have thought that obligation is met by ensuring all seals and thru-hull fittings are in good condition, and by following the manufacturer's instructions.

- I agree that the bilge pump is not going to keep the boat afloat for long. It will deal with a slow leak (until the batteries flatten), but will not cope with a holed hull.

- I don't think I have misunderstood the manual - "Switch off all the battery switches when the boat is unattended."

Anyway, I certainly appreciate the feedback. It is food for thought.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Jhclay

Thanks for the feedback. Very helpful.

A few comments in response:
- Not all the policies I looked at specifically require an automatic bilge pump. My broker contends that even where they do not, failing to have one might breach an insured's obligation to take all reasonable steps to prevent loss or damage. I would have thought that obligation is met by ensuring all seals and thru-hull fittings are in good condition, and by following the manufacturer's instructions.

- I agree that the bilge pump is not going to keep the boat afloat for long. It will deal with a slow leak (until the batteries flatten), but will not cope with a holed hull.

- I don't think I have misunderstood the manual - "Switch off all the battery switches when the boat is unattended."

Anyway, I certainly appreciate the feedback. It is food for thought.

Possibly the highlighted portion of your post is where the misunderstanding lies. I believe that a correctly installed automatic bilge pump should be wired via a two position switch, auto or on, wired directly to the battery or unswitched bus bar, no ability to switch the power to the bilge pump off.

[girdasso]

I should add to my earlier post that as far as i can recall the requirement to have the automatic bilge pump was not in the contract but came about when the insurers surveyor made a report after a routine survey he made it mandatory in his report.
The comment that the boat would sink anyway when the battery ran out is misleading. the bilge pump would keep the boat afloat for weeks in the event of a small leak and this would be ample time for neighbors to see that the boat was sinking and take action.