Amateur Crew Boat Delivery

[GTom]

Originally Posted by StuM

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

And I doubt that the owner would appreciate such thoughts.

Pitfalls of the second language , let's stay with steer then)

[seabreez]

Originally Posted by jrbogie

indeed, it's interesting how many are of the notion that sailing close to land is the safe way.

It almost looks like navigating with a road map... seems like lack of knowledge or maybe fear of falling off the horizon. They have fear of not trusting their calculations and leaving land behind them... lack of experience.

[alansmith]

To the gentleman who gave the tip of using a walkie talkie for communicating with commercial aircraft during a shizzle moment was something I never thought of. Thanks for sharing that "gem".

Anyone care to refresh old brain here? Aren't most Atlantic hurricanes born in August- October? With modern satellite forecasting this captain and crew should be able to take rhumb line with plenty advanced warning of impending doom. So, to the OP... does the boat have ability to receive grib files or enrolled in a weather routing service?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by hamburking

Sounds like you are in half mutiny already. You admit you have limited knowledge, yet you have decided the "safest" course based on your lack of knowledge.

Specifically, land is your enemy. Staying close to land is a huge mistake. If you are close to land, you will certainly run aground or into other boats when the visibility is poor or at night. What you want is sea room...and lots of it.

Accept that you don't have those skills. You must trust the skipper entirely, and accept his decisions. If you don't trust him, don't go. If you constantly second guess him you will be terrible crew and it will be a terrible trip.

Show your skipper some respect and ask him what he plans for the route, and possible harbours of refuge along the way. It should become obvious quite quickly if he knows what he is doing.

FWIW, I crossed the atlantic with an owner/skipper who did not have a clue. Being an experienced navigator, he assigned me the task of navigation. But he quickly questioned and doubted everything I did. I spent half the trip trying to get him to understand the idea of great circles, which he simply could not grasp. It was awful.

Really good advice. For any soldier or sailor. Put your faith in the skipper. OR don't go. There's no other way that works.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Absolutely agree. I tell my crew this.

On the other hand a good skipper can explain his decisions with being defensive. That's good too.
e.

A good skipper may even consult the crew and get consensus, for certain kinds of decisions. It's all about leadership. The better the skipper, the less he requires submissiveness from the crew in order to be able to do his job. But no skipper, good or bad, can do his job with the crew second-guessing every decision.

[CSY Man]

. To the gentleman who gave the tip of using a walkie talkie for communicating with commercial aircraft during a shizzle moment was something I never thought of. Thanks for sharing that "gem".

Good idea bringing a handheld VHF with aviation frequencies. (Not a walkie-talkie)
I fly commercial airplanes as well, we sit for hours acrosss lands and oceans monitoring 121.5. (All planes have minimum 2 or 3 VHF radios, a couple of SSB HF radios and some have sat-com.)

If you are in trouble, transmit 3 times Pan or Mayday and say: Sailboat sinking, transmitting blind, 200 miles East of Bermuda, request assistance.
Or whatever it takes to get an airplane's attention.

Primary would be an EPIRB if you have an emergency, airplanes can only alert Air Traffic Control, who would alert the CG.
A DSC VHC could also be activated before the EPIRB in case there is boats or ships in the area.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

A good skipper may even consult the crew and get consensus, for certain kinds of decisions. It's all about leadership. The better the skipper, the less he requires submissiveness from the crew in order to be able to do his job. But no skipper, good or bad, can do his job with the crew second-guessing every decision.

Exactly and very well said.

Consensus leads to buy-in which enhances morale and performance. It helps keep crew engaged.

In an emergency the discussion can happen later.

If the discussion is protracted the skipper makes the decision and everyone moves on.

If the skipper has chosen crew whose judgment cannot be trusted then he or she has not done a good job of crew selection.

[Taichungman]

Originally Posted by jordantait

I've just signed up to crew on a boat delivery from Antigua to Baltimore with a 2004 Beneteau 473. The boat owner has decided not to hire a captain (delivery is too soon and couldn't arrange). He has assembled 4 amateur sailors, including myself, will an aggregate of a few hundred hours sailing.

I'm petitioning to the owner for cautious navigation. I.e. close to land at all times! The plans is to skirt the leeward islands and head for the Old Bahama Channel then head up the coast for ICW.

Doth thine internet have sage wisdom to spare? Which is the well trodden navigation? I'm trying to keep some vessels within earshot.

__________________________________________________ _____
Crewman Jordantait,

I would say, if you have good nav. resources 'ie' AIS, radar,etc....then do a short sail from Antigua to Road Town, Tortola and get to know the boat, your crew mates and Captain. If you have good weather window then get your easting done quick as possible all the way to the Bahamas. Anchor near George town and take a rest and then if you have a good weather window, ( nothing tropical forming to the East of you) take off straight for the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay, maybe check in at Norfolk and take a rest. Most dangerous part of this is landfall, cruise ships and hurricanes, so stay away as much as possible from LAND and HURRICANES and Cruise Ships. OH! and don't forget tug's pulling tows with 1000' cables; that is dangerous too. I'm sure I forgot something like, rocks in the wrong place, rig, rudder and engine failure; there is a long list but don't worry about it; just enjoy.



If you are worried about the owner/captain's ability or you and crew, then think about not going on this boat.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Taichungman

I would say, if you have good nav. resources 'ie' AIS, radar,etc....then do a short sail from Antigua to Road Town, Tortola and get to know the boat, your crew mates and Captain.

That wouldn't be the choice of a crew member. The skipper decides. Certainly Road Town or more likely Trellis Bay is a good bail out if the skipper decides a crew member needs to be put off. Otherwise why burn the time of stopping? The OP describes a delivery, not a cruise.

Originally Posted by Taichungman

If you have good weather window then get your easting done quick as possible all the way to the Bahamas.

Bahamas are West. If the goal is the Chesapeake heading to the Bahamas and on to the Gulf Stream will COST at least two days. Don't forget the $300 to check into the Bahamas.

What time would you arrive in the Bahamas? You can't plan that ahead. The only all hours, all weather entry is Nassau and not my favorite place to rest.

Originally Posted by Taichungman

Anchor near George town and take a rest and then if you have a good weather window, ( nothing tropical forming to the East of you) take off straight for the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay, maybe check in at Norfolk and take a rest.

If you do go all the way West to the Bahamas don't go straight to the Chesapeake. You're so far West at that point that the Gulf Stream is sensible.

From Antigua just head straight for "CB" missing Anguilla and making sure your tactical angles don't push you too close to Diamond Shoals.

Once in the Bay given the destination is Baltimore there is no point in going into Norfolk. Little Creek is a better, faster stop for C&I. It's closer to the airport so C&I show up quicker and you save a couple of hours. Depending on the time of day I either tie up at the fuel dock at Vinings Landing Marina or a side tie at Cobb's Marina (nicer, no fuel).

Originally Posted by Taichungman

If you are worried about the owner/captain's ability or you and crew, then think about not going on this boat.

On this we agree.

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

Once in the Bay given the destination is Baltimore there is no point in going into Norfolk. Little Creek is a better, faster stop for C&I. It's closer to the airport so C&I show up quicker and you save a couple of hours. Depending on the time of day I either tie up at the fuel dock at Vinings Landing Marina or a side tie at Cobb's Marina (nicer, no fuel).
.

Not to get cross-wise with Dave, but Cobbs has fuel, Vinnings does not. In fact Cobbs at the moment has the only civilian fuel in Little Creek.


Cheers,

[Taichungman]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

That wouldn't be the choice of a crew member. The skipper decides. Certainly Road Town or more likely Trellis Bay is a good bail out if the skipper decides a crew member needs to be put off. Otherwise why burn the time of stopping? The OP describes a delivery, not a cruise.



Bahamas are West. If the goal is the Chesapeake heading to the Bahamas and on to the Gulf Stream will COST at least two days. Don't forget the $300 to check into the Bahamas.

What time would you arrive in the Bahamas? You can't plan that ahead. The only all hours, all weather entry is Nassau and not my favorite place to rest.



If you do go all the way West to the Bahamas don't go straight to the Chesapeake. You're so far West at that point that the Gulf Stream is sensible.

From Antigua just head straight for "CB" missing Anguilla and making sure your tactical angles don't push you too close to Diamond Shoals.

Once in the Bay given the destination is Baltimore there is no point in going into Norfolk. Little Creek is a better, faster stop for C&I. It's closer to the airport so C&I show up quicker and you save a couple of hours. Depending on the time of day I either tie up at the fuel dock at Vinings Landing Marina or a side tie at Cobb's Marina (nicer, no fuel).



On this we agree.

We all have a different idea and plan and I'm glad about that. If not, we would all end up in the same place. I like your route also; it makes sense.

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by jdazey

Not to get cross-wise with Dave, but Cobbs has fuel, Vinnings does not. In fact Cobbs at the moment has the only civilian fuel in Little Creek.

I never take offense at being corrected.

When I was last in Little Creek a couple of months ago the fuel dock at Vinings Landing Marina was open. I got fuel there. *grin* Vinings Landing Marina, once Taylors Landing Marina, used to be a favorite for me. Nice people, good service, and the shortest walk to Food Lion. Today the marina is sadly deteriorated. Some of the fingers are warped up to 60°. The foundations under the building that had Surf Rider and a bunch of marine businesses have collapsed and the building is sliding into the creek. It's been condemned. The risk is high enough that the convenient transient slips there can't be used. I called down and they have a boat docked at the fuel dock and won't be open for weeks at least. I suspect without other knowledge that they have yet another deterioration problem.

There are other fuel docks in Little Creek, most also owned by Vinings including Little Creek Marina. Cobbs Marina is not one. None of the other marinas are as short a walk to groceries and restaurants as Vinings Landing Marina or Cobbs. If you had to you could walk to Norfolk International Airport. It wouldn't be fun *grin* but you could. I prefer Uber.

Cobbs Marina is an outstanding family owned and run marina. My experience there recently was as usual outstanding. They do not have a fuel dock (unless they just added one in the last couple of months). They do have big tanks of diesel (I don't know about gasoline). The tanks are for their lift and other equipment. If you get in a real bind they'll help you jug fuel and charge market rates. I don't consider that a fuel dock - it's exemplary customer service. I would never count on it for normal fueling.

If there are some changes I don't know about please let me know - I'll be back in Little Creek in July. As things stand now I'll stop in Cobb's for C&I, to say hello, have a little post-passage celebration, and then fuel up (if we need to) at Little Creek Marina.

[Capt Phil]

Some really good advice, particularly from Auspicious in the responses. As a former delivery skipper, albeit on the left coast, one thing that is very important to me is how the skipper/owner acts under duress. It is fairly easy to be welcoming of new ideas and accepting of suggestions when everything is calm and decisions don't have to be made quickly and correctly but when the **** hits the fan, you want someone who is hopefully experienced and can make quick and straightforward decisions without debate and have the confidence of the crew to have made the right call. There is nothing worse at sea than having the skipper equivocate, change his/her mind in a dire situation. It does not make for a smooth and relaxing passage! Cheers, Phil

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I never take offense at being corrected.

When I was last in Little Creek a couple of months ago the fuel dock at Vinings Landing Marina was open. I got fuel there. *grin* Vinings Landing Marina, once Taylors Landing Marina, used to be a favorite for me. Nice people, good service, and the shortest walk to Food Lion. Today the marina is sadly deteriorated. Some of the fingers are warped up to 60°. The foundations under the building that had Surf Rider and a bunch of marine businesses have collapsed and the building is sliding into the creek. It's been condemned. The risk is high enough that the convenient transient slips there can't be used. I called down and they have a boat docked at the fuel dock and won't be open for weeks at least. I suspect without other knowledge that they have yet another deterioration problem.

There are other fuel docks in Little Creek, most also owned by Vinings including Little Creek Marina. Cobbs Marina is not one. None of the other marinas are as short a walk to groceries and restaurants as Vinings Landing Marina or Cobbs. If you had to you could walk to Norfolk International Airport. It wouldn't be fun *grin* but you could. I prefer Uber.

Cobbs Marina is an outstanding family owned and run marina. My experience there recently was as usual outstanding. They do not have a fuel dock (unless they just added one in the last couple of months). They do have big tanks of diesel (I don't know about gasoline). The tanks are for their lift and other equipment. If you get in a real bind they'll help you jug fuel and charge market rates. I don't consider that a fuel dock - it's exemplary customer service. I would never count on it for normal fueling.

If there are some changes I don't know about please let me know - I'll be back in Little Creek in July. As things stand now I'll stop in Cobb's for C&I, to say hello, have a little post-passage celebration, and then fuel up (if we need to) at Little Creek Marina.

You were in Little Creek a couple of months ago. I'm at Cobb's now and have been for a couple of months. Cobb's has the only fuel available to civilians in Little Creek. The other fuel docks are closed at the moment. You may not consider Cobb's to have a fuel dock, but they have a dock where you can get fuel (diesel). They have hoses that reach out to the dock. You don't have to use jugs. Fuel business has been pretty good for them lately

Cheers,

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by jdazey

You were in Little Creek a couple of months ago. I'm at Cobb's now and have been for a couple of months. Cobb's has the only fuel available to civilians in Little Creek. The other fuel docks are closed at the moment. You may not consider Cobb's to have a fuel dock, but they have a dock where you can get fuel (diesel). They have hoses that reach out to the dock. You don't have to use jugs. Fuel business has been pretty good for them lately

Cool. When I was last at Cobbs we jugged.

Little Creek Marina and Bay Point Marina fuel docks are both closed?

If Cobbs has hoses to the dock I'm in. They are my favorite now anyway.

Any inside scope on what is going on with the Vinings company?