About NOT power setting the anchor

[Pegu Club]

From our research of anchoring techniques we decided that powering down is the way to go. Depending on circumstances we deploy a five to one scope as a minimum, more relevant to weather/ sea conditions. We let out the chain in three ish intervals letting it catch and get taught each time. We have a 16 hp Beta diesel that we slowly increase rpms up to 2600 rpms then hold at that for 30 seconds, that is our standard procedure, haven’t dragged doing so. When we were up Island creek off the Choptank river for TS Isaias last Summer we had one hundred plus feet of chain out snubbed and backed down slowly up to 3000 rpms and held that for one minute, we didn’t move an inch, with winds hitting over fifty knots. We have anchored under sail at Warderick Wells with a dirty fuel filter issue, I loosened the clutch on the electric windlass and payed out the chain, back winded the main and set the anchor in that fashion. We held fine, changed the filter headed out the following morning. It’s good to be confident in anchoring under sail. Mechanical things do fail us on occasion...

Fair winds,

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

So the wind has no power? When did we agree that power setting is specific to the internal combustion engine?

If you are arguing the anchor must be set during the anchoring process but it doesn't have to be done using the engine, I'll agree. I think you will find the sentiment of many responders soften if you are simply using an alternate means of setting the anchor.

It's the "toss it and hope for best" approach that many cruisers question. If you manage to harness a large pod of dolphins pulling in unison to set the anchor, you have still given it a test.

Suggestion. Please read the very first sentence of the first post of this entire thread .
It specificly says engine
[ QUOTE]I [can't] see why everyone else uses their engine to pull on the anchor to try to set it [ QUOTE]

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Maybe. Locally, Catalina Island has a lot of moorings, and I presume they are (mostly) secure and well maintained, but 99% of the time they are not tested by strong winds or swells. A Santa Ana wind of 50 or 60 knots will put them to the test. Personally I wouldn't risk it.

But that means 3.5days per year (the remaining 1%) they undergo an extreme test (50-60kt winds). If the boats on moorings are still in place as opposed to piled up in one corner of the bay, they have survived the test. The test doesn't have to occur daily. Once it's established the mooring has good holding, you've done the test.

[sailingon1]

I would always set my anchor. I do it a little different but simular.
If in 20feet of water. I would be slowly reverse and layout say 40feet of chain. while in not in gear i can feel and see the bow swing as it holds. The boat would move forward over the anchor. Then back up slowly and lay out the rode as required depending on wind and such. Yes the wind will get the anchor better set. but at least i know im digging in.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Suggestion. Please read the very first sentence of the first post of this entire thread .
It specificly says engine
[ QUOTE]I [can't] see why everyone else uses their engine to pull on the anchor to try to set it [ QUOTE]

If you want to play at semantics, I reject the original premise of the question (which you cut off at a critical point):

"I [can't] see why everyone else uses their engine to pull on the anchor to try to set it. I literally throw mine overboard and dump out 10:1, or at worst case, 8:1."

This gives the impression there are only two possibilities:
- Set using the engine
- Toss it an hope for the best (though with huge impractical scope for many areas).

By limiting it to those two options, it creates a distorted view likely to draw conflicting answers but really doesn't answer the question in a useful manner.

The underlying issue (as I and others have mentioned multiple times) is did you stress test the system?
- Setting using the engine, wind, current or lassoing a passing whale is far better than.
- Toss it and hope for the best.

Of course, sometimes the best practice can fail and sometimes the worst practice can succeed...just a question of the odds.

[lo2jones]

Thin water,
Amen. Unless Mother Nature, via current or wind is taking a rest, I let her set the anchor. I have power set when a strong wind might blow, but just to make sure the anchor has set her self. On San Francisco Bay and coast environs, there is seldom a day when it is necessary to set the anchor.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I think this can be summarized as, you are "playing the odds."

Doesn't mean you will win every hand and sometimes someone will make a crazy bet and still win the hand. All else being equal, I'd rather play the odds.

Yup, another good way to put it . Given all the unknown and uncontrollable variables we face when anchoring, it just makes good sense to do what one can with the facets we do have control over. Those facets include:

• Choosing the best anchorage given what you know, and the expected conditions.
• Using a good anchor, preferably the largest you can reasonably manage.
• Using quality (and sufficient) rode.
• Setting as long a scope as is reasonable given constraints.
• Setting and testing (digging in) as best you can.

Those who repeatedly anchor in known areas will obviously know more about the variables at play. They can be more refined in their choice of technique and approach. But those of us who explore further afield face greater uncertainties, so as you say Val, it only makes sense to "play the odds."

[merrydolphin]

It depends on the anchor and the bottom. In soft mud and a CQR or maybe even Delta, power setting is a big mistake. The anchor will just, well, plow!
You need to let it settle in the mud or ooze for a bit. Let the boat bob around a little. Wiggle the anchor down some. Then, in a while, VERY GENTLY AND SLOWLY back down on it. Another special case is a Danforth type (including Fortress, especially if not re-adjusted to the 45 degree mud setting fluke angle) in soft mud or ooze. Standard technique will not work. If you let out scope and put a load on it, it will just plane our or slide alone the top of the mud. The more scope you put out the worse it is. You need to first set it at a very steep scope 2-2.5:1. This will get the flukes to start penetrating. I know it sounds counter-intuitive but it works. As a US Sailing instructor and a Scuba instructor that has cruised and lived at anchor for decades. I have dove on many anchor settings and seen all this first hand. Sometimes mostly by feel because there was no visibility.
While in Tyrell Bay Carriacou / Grenada, in the inner lagoon a number of us went in for protection from an approaching hurricane. Many boats that were trying to set danforth types couldn't do it. I would dive down and have to manually start it down, by feel. Then we started setting on very short scope, it worked! Once started you could let out scope. But a few you could only set by diving. Very oozy.

Now the modern anchors like Spade (love it) and Rocna, and similar are much more friendly to just backing down on them with no other preparation than properly lowering/laying them to normal scope, with all chain somewhere typically between 3-5 to one.
And no matter what anchor, it is always best to increase throttle SLOWLY. I have seen many boats just drop their anchor, throw it in reverse and drag all over the anchorage. Look out here he comes!

[Auspicious]

Absent no-wind/no-current "power set" is a misnomer. The point of reversing on a set anchor and for that matter a mooring is to test it, not to set it. I think a couple of others have made this point but it isn't setting (ha!) in people's minds.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

If you want to play at semantics, I reject the original premise of the question (which you cut off at a critical point):

"I [can't] see why everyone else uses their engine to pull on the anchor to try to set it. I literally throw mine overboard and dump out 10:1, or at worst case, 8:1."

This gives the impression there are only two possibilities:
- Set using the engine
- Toss it an hope for the best (though with huge impractical scope for many areas).

By limiting it to those two options, it creates a distorted view likely to draw conflicting answers but really doesn't answer the question in a useful manner.

The underlying issue (as I and others have mentioned multiple times) is did you stress test the system?
- Setting using the engine, wind, current or lassoing a passing whale is far better than.
- Toss it and hope for the best.

Of course, sometimes the best practice can fail and sometimes the worst practice can succeed...just a question of the odds.

Not semantics it specificly says engine not sail wind or any other means.
And as I stated the only time in well over 30 years I have ever drug anchor I " set" it with the engine.
Perhaps I have been lucky but I doubt it i have seen many boats that " power set" drag in my cruising area but never saw one that set " natural" drag. ( but we do have up to 15 feet of tidal flow twice a day.

[bluepearl54]

Not sure this is an “either, or”, I let the elements , wind/current, do the work and then use the engine for a simple tug and pull to make sure the “elements” did their job. Never dragged either!

[Jlp0217]

The first time I tried to anchor for an overnight, I dropped my delta anchor in
about 30 feet of water with charts showing a mud bottom. There was a light breeze that I allowed to move the boat to lay out 150 feet of chain. Then I backed down on it. The anchor did not set. I dragged it around for a while and let out more chain hoping it would grab. Finally bringing it up, I found that I had dropped it right into an automobile tire. The anchors point was in one side, and the ears on the back were in the other side, the tire stretched over it. Had i not backed down, the weight of 200 ft of 1/2 inch chain probably would have held the boat in the light wind and current, but I would not have know that the anchor was never going to hold. It took more than an hour to remove the tire using a crow bar and large screw driver while leaning over the bow and working around the pulpit.
Note, I used to use a buoy on a trip line to tell me where the anchor was. Most of the time, that buoy would be within 10 feet of the bow of the boat the next morning, with 150 feet more or less of chain scattered around the bottom.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by thinwater

Too simple. For example, in very soft mud if you try to power set immediately the anchor will drag and drag. It needs to be set in stages, very lightly to start, then more a short time later. Even 10 minutes helps and should let you know if it's good, but that is still too soon to give it much power. This is more true the smaller the anchor.

So yes, I frequently anchor places where the anchor does not immediately appear to have set, but will, in the fullness of time, be well-set, either with power or wind. I suspect many have not experienced this.
---
The funny thing about this thread is the many different things I have been said to do as standard practice.

a. Anchoring in very soft mud is not like anchoring on firm sand or rock. Not at all. So why would the process always be the same? In my experience, it is not.

b. I suggested a discussion. I intentionally did not say what I thought was right. I won't do it now.

Anchoring in very soft mud is a special case requiring an additional step -- letting the anchor "soak". Does not detract from the other points made.


Anyone who has done much anchoring in the Solent certainly has well developed techniques for dealing with soft mud!

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Anchoring in very soft mud is a special case requiring an additional step -- letting the anchor "soak". Does not detract from the other points made.

Strongly agree. On delivery there is always plenty to do at anchor. Hunting for a cell signal, email to owner on why we are stopped instead of moving, managing crew cleaning and organizing, .... On my own boat, "soak" time is deterministically related to a slow glass of wine.

Lots of soft mud in the world. Not the best bottom, not the worst.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

. . . The underlying issue (as I and others have mentioned multiple times) is did you stress test the system?
- Setting using the engine, wind, current or lassoing a passing whale is far better than.
- Toss it and hope for the best.

Of course, sometimes the best practice can fail and sometimes the worst practice can succeed...just a question of the odds.

Well stated.