About NOT power setting the anchor

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by newhaul

If I put all my chain and rode on one anchor I could anchor in 100 ft of water with a 10 to 1
Some say I carry to much rode. Only 300 ft 5/16 chain for cqr

1000 ft is a lot of rode. I think I'm at around 700 ft if I combined all three of mine. Hmmmm, maybe I need another one .

Probably the most I've ever had out was about 250' of 3/8" chain and snubber. This was facing a nasty fast-moving front on Lake Superior. Measured sustained 55 knots, and over a couple of hours we clocked a full 360º. Never budged ... thankfully.

Another time a tornado was headed our way.

Then, a couple of seasons ago, we sat through some days-long sustained 40+ winds while anchored in Newfoundland. I wasn't able to let out much additional rode there since were were already kissing the shoreline (probably should have moved). Sitting on maybe 6:1 ... never budged.

(And yes, in all cases I had power-set my anchor ).

[rslifkin]

Let's see. If I had to put a really long rode together, I've got my 390 foot primary (I normally figure 375 feet usable). Plus a 200 foot secondary. And I could attach a couple of 50 foot dock lines and maybe a couple of 35 footers as well before getting down to shorter lines where it's not worth the effort. So that would put me around 750 feet.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

Let's see. If I had to put a really long rode together, I've got my 390 foot primary (I normally figure 375 feet usable). Plus a 200 foot secondary. And I could attach a couple of 50 foot dock lines and maybe a couple of 35 footers as well before getting down to shorter lines where it's not worth the effort. So that would put me around 750 feet.

Thats not counting my drouge bridle

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by newhaul

So bay is ( for me ) CQR territory.
I use a 10:1 to deploy and about an hour later I will shorten to 5 or 6 : 1

Ten to one in fifty feet of water? That gives you a 1000 foot swinging circle diameter - and with a current-prone location (like SF Bay or around here), you are going to use all of it. You'll not be terribly popular - or, around here, you will be on the beach.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Ten to one in fifty feet of water? That gives you a 1000 foot swinging circle diameter - and with a current-prone location (like SF Bay or around here), you are going to use all of it. You'll not be terribly popular - or, around here, you will be on the beach.

About an hour later I shorten up after the anchor has had time to dig in read the post .

I draw a mere 4.5 ft so I like shallow anchoring keeps people away from me .

10 ft of water and 2 ft of dead rise so 120 ft chain is 10 to 1 for my preferred anchoring .
Final is 5 to 1 or 60 or so in chain

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I draw a mere 4.5 ft so I like shallow anchoring keeps people away from me .

I draw a little less, but at least near home, I go for the opposite. The shallow anchorages tend to be more crowded (although not necessarily the really shallow spots). But almost nobody wants to anchor in deeper water. So I'll happily take a spot in 40 or 50 feet knowing that only a handful of others would even think about taking a spot near me (and the ones that would are most likely competent).

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by newhaul

As the wind/ water force goes up so does my scope. At worst one time I must have had 250 ft of chain and rode out in 10 ft of water . As conditions relax i reduce scope.

25:1? You realize that there is almost no gain in holding power beyond 7:1, and none at all over 10:1?


You would do better putting all that chain out in deeper water. Then you'll hold better.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Chotu

Toss and Hope isn’t even a category. It’s a derogatory comment toward people who understand an anchor secures itself to the sea bed.

It’s not even possible in 99% of all conditions.

A boat is always moving. How else would you be paying out your chain otherwise?

Toss and hope may work on a rubber duckie in a bathtub with no windows open or fan on, but in real life a very heavy boat always has the momentum to dig an anchor in. It just digs more as conditions increase

I suspect based on your 3rd paragraph, the confusion is mostly not making clear your expectations when anchoring.

To my mind, if you are "paying out", that implies the boat has momentum backwards and when you get to your desired scope, you snub it off and jerk the boat to a halt. That ensures the anchor chain is laid out and not in a pile fouling the anchor and it provides an initial test that the anchor is set.

For all practical purposes, you have power set your anchor (just wind and momentum supplying the power).

I would presume if you anchor in calm conditions, you use the motor to develop some momentum so the anchor chain doesn't wind up in a pile fouling the anchor and by default that momentum would give at least a modest tug to set and test the anchor when you snub it off. Maybe not ideal but far better than toss & hope.

Now if you just pay out the anchor while the boat isn't moving in calm conditions (or worse like many newbies just let it freefall), you will wind up with a pile of chain (hopefully not on top of the anchor) and no idea if the anchor is going to drag until the wind picks up later and mother nature does a test for you.

None of this proves that if a hurricane blows thru you won't drag but it at least provides knowledge that you have at least a base level of holding.

[Scorpius]

Originally Posted by newhaul

About an hour later I shorten up after the anchor has had time to dig in read the post .

I draw a mere 4.5 ft so I like shallow anchoring keeps people away from me .

10 ft of water and 2 ft of dead rise so 120 ft chain is 10 to 1 for my preferred anchoring .
Final is 5 to 1 or 60 or so in chain

That's nice if there's an anchorage with only 10' of water (at low tide - 26 at high tide). But often, if you want to anchor, 50 feet is what is available.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I would say we are looking at two categories with one having a subset that is mostly a distraction from the point.
- Toss & Hope with no idea if it's set/will set or not until mother nature at some indeterminate time decides to test it.
- Apply a force to test the set. This could be the motor, sails, momentum, or even wind/current if they are strong at the time of anchoring.
- The subset would be specifically using the ICE motor to back down on it.

I don't think you appreciate that there is a philosophical difference in anchoring approaches between "snubbing the cable and letting momentum/wind/current dig the anchor in just enough to stop" and "snubbing and securing the cable, then deliberately digging in with power and/or sails". "Setting" the anchor is not the same as "power-setting" the anchor.

As far as being environmentally minded a good set (assuming you don't do something stupid like anchor in coral or endangered sea grass) is relatively harmless. A divot in the sand will fill in quickly.

There is not a lot of study on this, but the little that exists seems to suggest that in heavily-anchored areas there are negative impacts on the benthic communities. The studies also tend to suggest larger anchors and "locking in" the anchor causes the most damage. https://dspace.library.uvic.ca/handle/1828/1858

On the other hand a poorly or non-set anchor can easily result in a boat that drags into coral possibly sinking and releasing a tank full of diesel among other undesirable consequences.

And a well-set anchor can drag in certain conditions - the more important factor is a suitable anchor watch, or effective anchor alarm.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

To my mind, if you are "paying out", that implies the boat has momentum backwards and when you get to your desired scope, you snub it off and jerk the boat to a halt. That ensures the anchor chain is laid out and not in a pile fouling the anchor and it provides an initial test that the anchor is set.

For all practical purposes, you have power set your anchor (just wind and momentum supplying the power).

I don't really want to put words in Chotu's mouth, but he did say he say he puts out 8 or 10:1 of chain (which I already said I understood to be paid out, not dumped in a pile). Although there is a little drag provided by the anchor to pull the chain out of the hawse, that is not enough to "set" the anchor per se. The amount of chain itself would stop the momentum of his vessel. This is very clearly not "power-set", and in fact isn't "set" - it is the very definition of an "un-set" anchor. Not the way I'd do it, but I can't fault Chotu's logic, and frankly agree with him with regard to not scrimping on the amount of chain out. His claims tend to support what I've always said - that the chain is as important as the anchor in the ground tackle "system."

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

25:1? You realize that there is almost no gain in holding power beyond 7:1, and none at all over 10:1?

With rope rode you are absolutely correct, but this does not apply with all-chain, and even with a mixed rode, but likely that would see diminishing returns at excessive lengths.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I don't really want to put words in Chotu's mouth, but he did say he say he puts out 8 or 10:1 of chain (which I already said I understood to be paid out, not dumped in a pile). Although there is a little drag provided by the anchor to pull the chain out of the hawse, that is not enough to "set" the anchor per se. The amount of chain itself would stop the momentum of his vessel. This is very clearly not "power-set", and in fact isn't "set" - it is the very definition of an "un-set" anchor. Not the way I'd do it, but I can't fault Chotu's logic, and frankly agree with him with regard to not scrimping on the amount of chain out. His claims tend to support what I've always said - that the chain is as important as the anchor in the ground tackle "system."

That’s pretty close to it. This post isn’t toward you, Lodesman.

So what really is going on in my technique is this:

1) dump the anchor to the bottom.

By the time it hits, you’re already a few feet back from the anchor via current or wind, or sometimes even my momentum from dropping the anchor while motoring into the spot. Typically I’m approaching very slowly however and the current or wind is what has me moving.

2) I dump out 10:1 as fast as it wants to go, making a pile near the anchor, by not on the anchor.

3). Watch everything. You can feel the anchor chain straighten out on the bottom and the boat is still abeam to the wind. Like it would be if you dragged. And apparent wind is of course, about zero.

4) keep watching everything. All of a sudden the boat stops dead and the chain rises up from the water and yanks to bow around indicating a set.

Voila. You’re anchored and you didn’t power set it.

If the conditions reverse, it resets. If a gale comes up, it just digs in deeper.

Again, if you haven’t tried it, you don’t know what you’re talking about. Try it and let me know AFTER you try it. I guess that means this spring for a lot of you.

I’d say important factors are MINIMUM 7:1 (I do 10:1 in less populated spots and for years without getting stuck on shorter scope)), a good anchor the right size for your boat. Snubber/bridal. Boat should be moving (luckily they always are).

When the boat jerks to a stop and points into the wind or current, and you sight a range to be sure it’s actually stopped, you can go below for a nap. If the wind really starts howling, the prudent mariner sets an anchor drag alarm however you choose to set your anchor.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

25:1? You realize that there is almost no gain in holding power beyond 7:1, and none at all over 10:1?


You would do better putting all that chain out in deeper water. Then you'll hold better.

With a 70 knot gusting wind on the nose the chain was more for the weight than anything else and when it was over my Danforth was completely buried along with a bit of chain in the mud.
I was the only boat out there that didn't drag that night so I say it was fine.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I draw a little less, but at least near home, I go for the opposite. The shallow anchorages tend to be more crowded (although not necessarily the really shallow spots). But almost nobody wants to anchor in deeper water. So I'll happily take a spot in 40 or 50 feet knowing that only a handful of others would even think about taking a spot near me (and the ones that would are most likely competent).

Its the opposite for my area most people here draw at least 5 ft so go for deeper but with my full keel I can even go dry just lay over to about 35° great time to clean beard off