About NOT power setting the anchor

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Can we assume that Fortress and Danforth are equivalent here?

I'd expect them to be pretty similar if similar size anchors are compared (not similar weight).

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Can we assume that Fortress and Danforth are equivalent here?

Don,

I am doing my best to stay out of the assumption game.

My assumptions have been proven wrong too many times.

Must test.

Steve

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Don C L

Can we assume that Fortress and Danforth are equivalent here?

I would say it depends on the design .
New style i would say yes but origional Danforth style will preform like the new ones that are 2 sizes larger than the old school ones

[Panope]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I'd expect them to be pretty similar if similar size anchors are compared (not similar weight).

More and more, I am finding the 'degree to which an anchor is able to dive into the seabed' to be the dominant factor for holding power. NOT size or shape.

Steve

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Panope

More and more, I am finding the 'degree to which an anchor is able to dive into the seabed' to be the dominant factor for holding power. NOT size or shape.

Steve

That absolutely makes sense. But until you move the Fortress to the 45* fluke angle, I would expect it to have similar diving ability as a similar size Danforth as the designs, fluke shapes, etc. are very similar. The cheap Danforth copies are likely to differ more in my mind, and in very soft mud, the Fortress set to the wider angle should dive better.

[Don C L]

Originally Posted by Panope

Don,

I am doing my best to stay out of the assumption game.

My assumptions have been proven wrong too many times.

Must test.

Steve

[Panope]

"Very similar" is not necessarily a good predictor.

Small differences can large effects.

For example the sharped leading edges of the Fortress flukes MIGHT give it a relatively large advantage.

Steve

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Panope

"Very similar" is not necessarily a good predictor.

Small differences can large effects.

For example the sharped leading edges of the Fortress flukes MIGHT give it a relatively large advantage.

Steve

That's a good thought on the fluke edges. I'd forgotten about that difference. I think the Danforth HT models have the sharpened flukes as well. So those might compare better, while the non-sharpened regular Danforths and the Fortress Guardian models (non-sharpened) may compare more closely.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

That absolutely makes sense. But until you move the Fortress to the 45* fluke angle, I would expect it to have similar diving ability as a similar size Danforth as the designs, fluke shapes, etc. are very similar. The cheap Danforth copies are likely to differ more in my mind, and in very soft mud, the Fortress set to the wider angle should dive better.

I assume most of you know that a Fortress set at 45 degrees will not engage firm bottoms. Rather like the best sharpening angle for many tools depends on the material you are cutting, the same is true of anchors. The best angle for a Fortress depends on the bottom.



I mostly avoid commenting on the holding capacity of specific anchors, because it varies so much with the bottom. It's a bag of cats. I can take the same anchor to two locations within 1/4 mile and get holding ranging from 10#/# to 120#/#, and the rank ordering will also change to some extent.

[9intheafternoon]

Great post. Thanks!
I simply don’t understand that people insist on telling others how to handle their boats? This guy has made clear this works for him, and have the experience to prove it. So why argue?
My opinion is, also backed by a lifetime of living at anchor all over the world, is that there IS no one rule. There are so many variables when anchoring, too many to go into here.
I personally also don’t habitually power-reverse set my anchor. At most I gently set it, then wait and see.
I know my boat well, and can feel if the anchor is holding. If possible I love jumping in to have a look at the anchor.
The thread also shows hat I believe: most important is to have an anchor which can re-set itself when wind or current change. For me this is a combination of anchor design, and very much weight, both in anchor and in chain. But This obviously brings other challenges. 😅 safe sailing!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by 9intheafternoon

I simply don’t understand that people insist on telling others how to handle their boats?

Two issues:
- Newbies see toss &hope for the best is a good option, so it's effectively teaching them bad habits.
- If they are in a remote anchorage with no one else around for miles, it's not my problem if they drag up onto the rocks. If they are a couple hundred feet upwind from my boat, it's in my self interest to want them securely anchored.

[Chotu]

Here, here!

Exactly.

The problem on forums sometimes is people who have NO ACTUAL EXPERIENCE with something just use their imagination and build a hill to die on, even if they have never even tried something.

Plenty of them banter on and on about the ultimate storm, sailing round the world, keeping pirates away. Etc. it’s all just theory and no data. No experience.

This topic is exactly the same. None of these people building a hill to die on over the unnecessary use of an engine to set the anchor have ever even tried to set one without an engine.

Oh, but they’ll go on for pages and pages claiming to be experts on something they have never even tried.

Such is the nature of forums I guess. Especially when people can’t get out sailing.

The only thing I take actual offense to is that I was dragged into this conversation against my will.

Originally Posted by 9intheafternoon

Great post. Thanks!
I simply don’t understand that people insist on telling others how to handle their boats? This guy has made clear this works for him, and have the experience to prove it. So why argue?
My opinion is, also backed by a lifetime of living at anchor all over the world, is that there IS no one rule. There are so many variables when anchoring, too many to go into here.
I personally also don’t habitually power-reverse set my anchor. At most I gently set it, then wait and see.
I know my boat well, and can feel if the anchor is holding. If possible I love jumping in to have a look at the anchor.
The thread also shows hat I believe: most important is to have an anchor which can re-set itself when wind or current change. For me this is a combination of anchor design, and very much weight, both in anchor and in chain. But This obviously brings other challenges. 😅 safe sailing!

[Auspicious]

Originally Posted by Chotu

it’s all just theory and no data. No experience.

This topic is exactly the same. None of these people building a hill to die on over the unnecessary use of an engine to set the anchor have ever even tried to set one without an engine.

I've sailed on and off anchors. I've club-hauled and backed down under sail.

I still think you're taking unnecessary risk not backing down on your anchor, one way or the other, to test the set. Whether by sail or power testing the set is important.

Theory and practice do in fact align.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

This topic is exactly the same. None of these people building a hill to die on over the unnecessary use of an engine to set the anchor have ever even tried to set one without an engine.

I've had times on windy days where I can feel a good set just from the boat blowing downwind, but I usually still drop the engines in idle reverse once the rode is tight to be sure. I'm a powerboat, so the engines are always running out of necessity when I'm anchoring until I'm sure I won't need to maneuver, so there's basically no penalty for dropping them in gear for a minute before I shut them down. The more important case, however, is a day with lighter wind and a deep anchorage (like 50 feet) where I've got all of my chain and a decent bit of line out, I'll never feel it set. So in those cases, if I don't pull on it with the engines, I'm left with no idea if it's set or not until the weather picks up.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Auspicious

I've sailed on and off anchors. I've club-hauled and backed down under sail.

I still think you're taking unnecessary risk not backing down on your anchor, one way or the other, to test the set. Whether by sail or power testing the set is important.

Theory and practice do in fact align.

Agreed. Many others have posted here that they have experience doing both, and most come to this same conclusion.