Ranger29

[Ian mckay]

Hello, I am new to sailing. I bought a Mid 70s Ranger29
Had it lifted out of the water and discovered the keel has a wobble of about 1-11/2”. It is an integral fully incased keel. I haven’t been able to locate any bolts to tighten, is this fixable?

[TrentePieds]

Ian:

Haven't seen one of those outta the water in many a year :-) Are you SURE it's an integral keel?

As I remember it, it is a bolt on fin keel.

Short answer to your question is "yes - it's fixable". As always the question is "At what cost?"

If the boat is outta the water, can you take and post a coupla good pics of where the keel joins the hull, and of the bottom of the bilge after you've lifted the deck sole in the cabin?

We'll help you all we can. The Ranger 27 is a very good beginner's boat particularly if you happen to be in some such place as the Salish Sea.

All the best,

TrentePieds

[Celestialsailor]

Hi Ian...First, welcome to the forum. The symptom does sound like loose keel bolts. If it is a bolt on keel, you should be able to lift access panels on the sole and see nuts on studs. If not, maybe time to talk to a yard or surveyor. Hope it all works out for you.

[Ian mckay]

Thank for getting back to me.
I’ve taken some pictures and am trying to upload them. I’ve looked into the bilge where the pump is but can see no bolts. Not sure where else to look…..seems like it’s all sealed up.

[Boatguy30]

How are you observing the wobble? Dave Martin did some extensive modifications to his Cal 25 prior to a circumnavigation in the 90s. It's thought that fiberglass boats DO loose strength over time and these were relatively light boats Cal/Ranger to begin with.

[Ian mckay]

Hello, when we took the boat out of the water , as it was in the sling , the boat yard guy pushed the keel with his foot and it wiggled from side to side.

[Don C L]

I always thought the Rangers looked like great boats but I never got to sail one. I don't know if the wobble you mention indicates an unforgiveable structural weakness, but I have heard from a knowledgeable friend that Cal 28s, of the same vintage, with encapsulated keels, have a noticeable flex or wobble while sailing (which can be observed when lifting up the floorboards) and they are still sailing. Do you see any cracking of the fiberglass inside or outside where the keel meets the hull?

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

How are you observing the wobble? Dave Martin did some extensive modifications to his Cal 25 prior to a circumnavigation in the 90s. It's thought that fiberglass boats DO loose strength over time and these were relatively light boats Cal/Ranger to begin with.

Cal/Ranger were not light boats, Rangers were and this model in particular. Cals were pretty normal for early 1970s.

[Adelie]

Welcome.

I would suggest updating your profile with your general location and your boat make & model or “Looking” in the "Boat" category. This info shows up under your UserName in every post in the web view. Many questions are boat and/or location dependent and having these tidbits under your UserName saves answering those questions repeatedly. If you need help setting up your profile then click on this link: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ml#post3308797

I would happily help more if the link above is not enough.

Originally Posted by Ian mckay

Hello, when we took the boat out of the water , as it was in the sling , the boat yard guy pushed the keel with his foot and it wiggled from side to side.

Regarding the fin flex, nothing is perfectly rigid, not even steel or aluminum. It’s just a matter of how far it flexes.

[Celestialsailor]

All I can imagine is if the ballast is integral and not bolted on as it appears to be, perhaps there are "floors" or "sisters" tharts that might have come unbonded. Maybe time for a surveyor or Pro fiberglass person.

[Ian mckay]

Originally Posted by Don C L

I always thought the Rangers looked like great boats but I never got to sail one. I don't know if the wobble you mention indicates an unforgiveable structural weakness, but I have heard from a knowledgeable friend that Cal 28s, of the same vintage, with encapsulated keels, have a noticeable flex or wobble while sailing (which can be observed when lifting up the floorboards) and they are still sailing. Do you see any cracking of the fiberglass inside or outside where the keel meets the hull?

Hi Don
Looks like there was a repair done on the bottom front of the keel. There are some hair line cracks on one side of the keel where it meets the hull. But I think it is just cracks in the gel coat. There are no visible cracks in the bilge.
One of the guys working in the yard here said that I shouldn’t worry about it. Another opinion is to fibreglass the joint of keel and hull. And another suggestion is to drill holes at the top of the keel / bottom of the hull and if there is a void to fill with expanding foam….so at this point I’m not yet sure which way to go. I’m going to research a bit more before making a decision. Would be nice to get a copy of the actual plans for the boat. Any suggestions of where to look.?

[Ballsnall]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

All I can imagine is if the ballast is integral and not bolted on as it appears to be, perhaps there are "floors" or "sisters" tharts that might have come unbonded. Maybe time for a surveyor or Pro fiberglass person.

I would have to agree with Celestialsailor, the keel does look intergral. Some flex is normal but 1 1/2" is very much excessive. The damage on the bottom of the keel may have been from a collision and has caused structure damage. You will need a competent person with a borescope to inspect the interior of the hull thoroughly to determine the issue.

[boatpoker]

Any keel that wobbles that much suggests some serious structural deficiencies usually involving the frames.

The one below wobbled about 3" and repair estimate was $50k.
The boat was written off. You can see in the photo that it is not plumb with the rudder. The second photo shows the very crudely repaired frames of which the pathetic repairs were failing.

Unfortunately I don't see how you could examine the frames without some surgery of the liner.

If I surveyed that vessel my number one recommendation would require full access to the frames for close inspection prior to launch.

[Don C L]

I could be wrong but I don't think the Ranger 29 has frames like that. Since there is damage to the keel I would be inspecting the aft part of the keel where it meets the hull, as damage from a grounding often shows up there. I have a feeling Ranger 29 owners may say that some flex in the hull is normal, I hope some will chime in here. It is a lot of lead to put in a narrow keel that meets such a, relatively, flat hull and is encapsulated I think. I am guessing what is meant by wobbling is that the hull itself near the keel is flexing allowing the keel to move back and forth, not necessarily damage at the actual junction at hull and keel. But I'd certainly look very closely at it.